New window install - gasp - leaking
#1
11-14-08, 07:59 AM
New window install - gasp - leaking
Recently installed new construction windows - removed the old windows down to the rough in, wrapped the entire rough in in protecto wrap (our far enough to cover where the nailing fin stops), dropped the new window in, covered the nailing fin with more protecto wrap and applied 3.23" vinyl casing/mold around and caulked.
But they are leaking between the rough in and what appears to be the fin. Leak appears to be from the top but I have to assume that the sides will be vulnerable as well.
Only caveat is that I could not remove the shingles to load the new window. The fin is screwed directly through them and into the house. They are the original asbestos shingles and could not easily be removed. A window contractor suggested this approach.
As soon as it stops raining, I plan to pull the casing, apply a wider (as close to 4" as I can get - probably closer to 3.5) layer of protecto wrap, affixed with that manufacturers suggested spray tak, lay down a thick layer of silicon caulk, reset the casing around and then caulk the daylights out of that.
Does this sound like a viable solution? If not, any reasonable suggestions that will get me to spring would help.
But they are leaking between the rough in and what appears to be the fin. Leak appears to be from the top but I have to assume that the sides will be vulnerable as well.
Only caveat is that I could not remove the shingles to load the new window. The fin is screwed directly through them and into the house. They are the original asbestos shingles and could not easily be removed. A window contractor suggested this approach.
As soon as it stops raining, I plan to pull the casing, apply a wider (as close to 4" as I can get - probably closer to 3.5) layer of protecto wrap, affixed with that manufacturers suggested spray tak, lay down a thick layer of silicon caulk, reset the casing around and then caulk the daylights out of that.
Does this sound like a viable solution? If not, any reasonable suggestions that will get me to spring would help.
#2
11-14-08, 08:45 AM
Hi easelpad, Just some FYI. When I test homes with new windows, the new windows often leak. Make sure the leak you are feeling is coming from around the window as opposed to the window itself. Incense sticks can provide a little gentle smoke to help.
Also, for the gap between the rough and the window, I usually apply the non-expanding foam to seal them tight. Make sure it is non-expanding and fill the cavity a little at a time, as I have had it push on the frame. If the gap is too thin to get the straw all the way in, I use a drill to carefully give me access, as the foam will fill that hole as well.
GL
Bud
Also, for the gap between the rough and the window, I usually apply the non-expanding foam to seal them tight. Make sure it is non-expanding and fill the cavity a little at a time, as I have had it push on the frame. If the gap is too thin to get the straw all the way in, I use a drill to carefully give me access, as the foam will fill that hole as well.
GL
Bud
#4
11-14-08, 09:22 AM
Thanks. But it appears to be water coming in not from the window but from outside. Either that or the windows are completely disfunctional.
None of the framing on the inside of the windows is complete yet, that is to say that while the windows have been installed and the exterior is sealed and caulked, the interior trim and framing is not up.
The leaks are occurring at the top - between the top of the window and the rough in. So I don't think it's the windows that are leaking.
As mentioned, we wrapped the rough in using protecto wrap. When we rough fitted the window we pencil boxed - drew a line around the nailing fin to denote where it ended - from the outside. Then we applied a 6" wide layer of protecto wrap from that line on the outside and wrapped it around the rough to the inside. Did that for each of the 4 sides overlapping at the corners.
Then we placed the window, checked for level, screwed down it down (had to nailing would have likely shattered the asbestos shingles) and placed a 2" wide layer of protecto wrap over the screws on the outside. I'm thinking that we didn't cover the nailing fin as completely as we should have. But the exterior trim - which has been caulked pretty heavily around should have stopped that. This is why I'm thinking perhaps water is flowing down from behind a shingle above and into the fin.
From the inside at the top if I stick a cue tip or piece of paper between the rough in and the top of the window I find water. One was so bad yesterday during rain it was running in over the top. On that window we had placed a 3/8 'shim' board that runs the entire length of the window. We shot Dap Tex plus in first and then shoved the board in, filling any spaces with extra dap. But there was a portion running along the bottom of that board between the top of the window and the rough in that we hadn't had a chance to fill.
But - caulking from the inside is only a patch - not a fix - water caught between the window and the rough in is a problem - we need to stop it.
If what you're suggesting is that the windows themselves are leaking - where exactly should I expect to find the flaw? These are vinyl windows with a molded fin and vinyl exterior channel. Where should I be seeing leaks?
I would expect that if the windows themselves were leaking I would see it at the seams??? Thanks for any guidance you - or anyone else can provide.
None of the framing on the inside of the windows is complete yet, that is to say that while the windows have been installed and the exterior is sealed and caulked, the interior trim and framing is not up.
The leaks are occurring at the top - between the top of the window and the rough in. So I don't think it's the windows that are leaking.
As mentioned, we wrapped the rough in using protecto wrap. When we rough fitted the window we pencil boxed - drew a line around the nailing fin to denote where it ended - from the outside. Then we applied a 6" wide layer of protecto wrap from that line on the outside and wrapped it around the rough to the inside. Did that for each of the 4 sides overlapping at the corners.
Then we placed the window, checked for level, screwed down it down (had to nailing would have likely shattered the asbestos shingles) and placed a 2" wide layer of protecto wrap over the screws on the outside. I'm thinking that we didn't cover the nailing fin as completely as we should have. But the exterior trim - which has been caulked pretty heavily around should have stopped that. This is why I'm thinking perhaps water is flowing down from behind a shingle above and into the fin.
From the inside at the top if I stick a cue tip or piece of paper between the rough in and the top of the window I find water. One was so bad yesterday during rain it was running in over the top. On that window we had placed a 3/8 'shim' board that runs the entire length of the window. We shot Dap Tex plus in first and then shoved the board in, filling any spaces with extra dap. But there was a portion running along the bottom of that board between the top of the window and the rough in that we hadn't had a chance to fill.
But - caulking from the inside is only a patch - not a fix - water caught between the window and the rough in is a problem - we need to stop it.
If what you're suggesting is that the windows themselves are leaking - where exactly should I expect to find the flaw? These are vinyl windows with a molded fin and vinyl exterior channel. Where should I be seeing leaks?
I would expect that if the windows themselves were leaking I would see it at the seams??? Thanks for any guidance you - or anyone else can provide.
Originally Posted by Bud9051
Hi easelpad, Just some FYI. When I test homes with new windows, the new windows often leak. Make sure the leak you are feeling is coming from around the window as opposed to the window itself. Incense sticks can provide a little gentle smoke to help.
Also, for the gap between the rough and the window, I usually apply the non-expanding foam to seal them tight. Make sure it is non-expanding and fill the cavity a little at a time, as I have had it push on the frame. If the gap is too thin to get the straw all the way in, I use a drill to carefully give me access, as the foam will fill that hole as well.
GL
Bud
Also, for the gap between the rough and the window, I usually apply the non-expanding foam to seal them tight. Make sure it is non-expanding and fill the cavity a little at a time, as I have had it push on the frame. If the gap is too thin to get the straw all the way in, I use a drill to carefully give me access, as the foam will fill that hole as well.
GL
Bud
#5
11-14-08, 01:17 PM
Group Moderator
You should always have a drip cap over the top of your trim. The top flange of the drip cap must be tucked behind the original building paper that is under your existing siding.
The old slate shingle siding used to have felt paper strips between the seams, which helped prevent leakage. It could be that these strips have deteriorated, or are missing, which is allowing water to get behind your protecto wrap. If you stuck the protecto wrap on top of any existing felt paper, it will not stick, no flashing tape I have found will stick to felt due to the asphalt impregnation in the paper.
You could also have a leak that is coming from above the window opening, but if it never leaked before and does now, I would imagine that it has to do with inadequate flashing above the window. Carefully removing the siding over the window, flashing, and replacing it is your best option. But I know it's brittle... I still break a few now and then.
The old slate shingle siding used to have felt paper strips between the seams, which helped prevent leakage. It could be that these strips have deteriorated, or are missing, which is allowing water to get behind your protecto wrap. If you stuck the protecto wrap on top of any existing felt paper, it will not stick, no flashing tape I have found will stick to felt due to the asphalt impregnation in the paper.
You could also have a leak that is coming from above the window opening, but if it never leaked before and does now, I would imagine that it has to do with inadequate flashing above the window. Carefully removing the siding over the window, flashing, and replacing it is your best option. But I know it's brittle... I still break a few now and then.
#6
11-14-08, 01:20 PM
Along with the protecto wrap you should put flashing on the top of the window with tar paper over it extending up under the exterior finish before installing trim. Without this flashing and tar paper I would not be surprised to have a leak.
#7
11-14-08, 01:24 PM
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The wrap on the bottom should be under the flange and extended as far past the flange (6 inches is nice) as you can. The the flange should be chalked and the window installed. The side wrap is next and should be extended over the bottom and the top as far as you can. Then the top wrap should be installed above the upperflange extending over the side wrap. The shingles should not be under the the flanges. I think the instructions are on the protecto wrap package.
#8
11-14-08, 01:42 PM
Sorry 
My brain was in the wrong grove.
Water Leaks Beer 4U2, now I feel better.
I didn't read all of the posts that followed, but I think they got it. Start your flashing from the bottom, make it wide, and overlap as you go up. Caulk and tape as you go. When you get to the siding above, you have to get your flashing well under the bottom layer above so that any water getting in anywhere is always delivered, layer by layer, to the surface.
Good Luck and sorry for the side step.
Bud
My brain was in the wrong grove.Water Leaks Beer 4U2, now I feel better.
I didn't read all of the posts that followed, but I think they got it. Start your flashing from the bottom, make it wide, and overlap as you go up. Caulk and tape as you go. When you get to the siding above, you have to get your flashing well under the bottom layer above so that any water getting in anywhere is always delivered, layer by layer, to the surface.
Good Luck and sorry for the side step.
Bud
