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Replacing exterior doors, few questions w/pics

Replacing exterior doors, few questions w/pics

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  #1  
Old 10-03-09, 12:07 PM
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Replacing exterior doors, few questions w/pics

Hopefully in the very near future I will be dropping in to new exterior doors and knocking down the horrible add-on job the previous owner did. I am a little confused when looking at a few things.

In this pic the wall you see next to the door is really the outside wall of the house the previous owner tried to make a walk through and put an add-on over that area. The house is all stucco on the outside but now the wall is flat with texture on it from what i can tell. I thought it may be a thin sheet of sheet rock nailed into the stucco but fear I am wrong. How else would they get it more of a flat surface, just mud the whole thing over?


To the right of the door there is what looks like cement running up it which is all cracked and falling out as well as to the left. The door looks like it is pressed right up against the framing to the right and on the left there is a bigger gap and some shims.


I am curious as to what needs to be removed to put in a nice door. I figured I would go pre-hung and afterward have the stucco re-done in that area once I remove the add-on. I can also provide more pics if it will help but figured most of it could be seen in those.

There is also another door that needs to be dropped in as well. This one leads from the 3 car garage to the outside. I have been hanging new sheet rock in the garage and when I removed some of it near the door area I saw the framing for the doorway and noticed a layer of styrofoam right up against it. I tried to re-search it a but but didn't really come across anything. Gotta turn your head sideways!


This is the doorway for the garage to outside


And this is the outside add-on that is being removed after the doors are in and good to go.




Thanks a bunch!
 
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  #2  
Old 10-03-09, 03:48 PM
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My first question was, what is over that doorway, but your pic answered that question. Looks like it is well supported and only needs minimal support. How thick is the wall?? That should be your guide for a new door. A standard door comes with 4 9/16 jambs, but you can order whatever you need from a local lumberyard, avoid big box. Order the jambs to fit the wall, don't try to re-engineer the wall.
 
  #3  
Old 10-03-09, 03:52 PM
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fox_forma,

Well, looking at the pics, I would say that the previous owner started with a pretty nice home, bought some fairly decent items to do the addition with, then proceeded to make a mess out of it all!!

Where to begin?

The 1st and 2nd pictures. How wide is the door that he installed? If it's a 32" wide, could you tear out all of the patching and install a 36" wide door? THAT would clean up a lot of mess. Those vinyl ducts above it -- are they for exhaust fans in bathrooms or something?? Get them to run without the dips in them, and even slightly uphill would be even better.

3rd picture. I turned my head and got that stack of 4 tires properly oriented. I have no clue what he was thinking or trying to accomplish!!

4th picture. Get down to the rough framing and install a door.

And the 5th picture. A mini-excavator comes to mind!!

YOU, my friend, have a project on your hands!!

I would start with a pencil and a piece of paper and sketch out what the house was originally. (That's point "A".) Then, on a second sheet of paper, sketch out what you want it to be when you are finished. (You've got it -- point "B".) Having seen photos of this guys work -- and the photos only show the surface!! -- I wouldn't even think about leaving ANY of it!

FYI -- I'm in the midst of a thread in the 'Deck' forum that just went to 3 pages long, and it's mostly just me and the guy who is doing the project. As long as you keep posting questions, we'll keep posting answers!! Hopefully Chandler, Gun Guy and a bunch of others check into this thread. The more eyes you have looking at it, the better!!
 
  #4  
Old 10-03-09, 05:29 PM
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Thanks for the responses guys! Yes it is true I have some work ahead of me but thats what you must expect when you close on a house at a 1/3 of the price the surrounding houses are still selling for. I was ready for it at least!

After more consideration I think I am going to completely lose the door and make it a wall. That door actually leads out of the downstairs bathroom and I believe they put it there so they could make the third garage a bedroom as it was when I originally moved in (have since tore it all down). I got the one opening down to the framing and also ripped out the lovely self done concrete slab the previous owner poured. There is a beautiful in tact concrete slab below it so that will also give me the run off I need to keep water away from the door I will be installing at the back to the 3rd car garage. I am going to try and get some estimates this week for someone to stucco over the new wall and all the other areas that were stupidly done.

As for the vent tubes running like that, they will be secured and mounted properly once I can rip down that add-on. They originally just come out to the right of that door and are mounted to the exterior wall but the previous owners ran them like that so the heat and lint didn't blow into the garage/bedroom. To let you know how crappy that extra add on is, I can stick my arm right through the top of it to the outside from inside of it. I'm surprised I haven't had any birds in my house yet or even see a lizard or something running around my house.

I got most of it ready at least to get the pre-hung door mounted this week on the 3rd car garage, but after tearing up the sweet carpet job on the floor (it was just glued down to the slab) that is going to be another fun project in itself.

The great carpet job


Got most of the self poured slab up today, it was actually higher than the foundation slab for the garage, luckily we haven't had much rain this year -- before picture...


Before ripping down the walls in the third garage (still a room)




And this is where I can stick my arm through from the inside to the outside. Pretty nice eh?
 
  #5  
Old 10-03-09, 06:10 PM
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YEAH!!

I told you about the thread in the deck forum (Please help!! 13X15...) that just went to 3 pages long. You keep coming back and I fully expect this one to go to 4 or 5!!

You got it at a good price, and you realize it's a bit more than just a weekend project. We'll hang in there through Thanksgiving, Christmas, and whatever else it takes.

The carpet -- given the pictures you posted about everything else, were you REALLY suprised???
 
  #6  
Old 10-03-09, 06:44 PM
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Oh no not at all surprised about the carpet, sad thing is its like that in the front room when you walk in the front door. Hardwood will be layed throughout the whole first floor eventually so I'm not worried. I think the husband of the previous owners were a DIY'er only he never researched a thng on how to do it since just about everything that has been changed or modified is done wrong.

There is something I am a bit confused about and its really hard to get a decent pic of it is I put up a lot of new drywall in the garage and above the doorway where I left up the previous drywall there is a considerable difference in how far it stick out. It looks to be a good 1/8in higher that the new drywall. After looking at the drywall I pulled down around the door frame it looks like the whole thing has a layer of mud on it. Isn't there a process that has to do with this? Can't think of the term but I am not sure I am going to be able to feather this out as its a pretty big difference in height.
 
  #7  
Old 10-03-09, 07:12 PM
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Now we're getting down to specifics!!

How thick was the sheetrock that you installed? If this is the wall between the garage and the house, it's a firewall, and old code called for that to be 5/8" 'rock. The new code (2006 IRC) says that 1/2" 'rock is acceptable, but every builder in THIS county is still using 5/8". (That same code also says that rebar is no longer required in a footing. I don't know of anybody around here who has poured a footing WITHOUT the rebar!!)

An 1/8" is a lot to feather out. If you only installed 1/2" 'rock, I would change it to 5/8". $100 of wasted sheetrock vs. 3 days to get it feathered out and have it look like something.
 
  #8  
Old 10-03-09, 07:22 PM
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I used 5/8 sheet rock. Its odd, if you look at it where the two meet up you can see the 5/8 rock used but it looks like something else is on top of that that is giving it the wrong height to line up properly. I thought maybe it was a lot of paint from over the years but its not. Maybe I will just try to feather and if all else fails just hang a sign up there, haha.

I could prob shim it right at the edge to level it out as its just a small piece of rock and not part of the 4x8 sheet that was hung as well.

Any advise on completely closing off that wall where the door is currently? I take it you just build a frame within it, insulate it, rock it on the inside and use plywood for the outside to seal it off then get it professionally re-stucco'd?
 
  #9  
Old 10-06-09, 02:59 PM
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Well some more demo'ing got done today and I took up the self poured concrete slab the previous had put down between the garage and the door to the bathroom. Before I go putting in a door at the garage do i need to get stucco work done or will the door drop in and they can stucco up to the edge properly?

One other thing is after ripping out the old concrete leaving the original slab, the concrete right where the door base will go does have some cracks in it. Will that be an issue? Has a couple cracks going from the garage towards the outside separated about 8-10in apart. No chunks missing or anything, just clean cracks.
 
  #10  
Old 10-06-09, 03:13 PM
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Put the door in first and attach stucco mould to the exterior side as trim. The stucco crew will stucco right to that.

Cracks in the concrete won't be an issue as long as they are just cracks. (I've have a couple in my sunroom that have been there about 10 years, and they haven't changed.)
 
  #11  
Old 10-06-09, 03:24 PM
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Thanks for the heads up, as for the stucco mold, what do I actually attach it to on the exterior? Does it just attach to the stud that the door frame will be attaching to or the actual door frame?
 
  #12  
Old 10-06-09, 03:36 PM
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It's just a piece of trim. It attaches just to the door jamb itself.

Assuming that you have 2X4 walls, the door jamb will be 4-9/16" wide. Assuming that you are using a pre-hung exterior door, the jamb legs and the header of the jamb will be about 1-1/4" thick on the outside. Set the door so that it is flush with the interior sheetrock (1/2" beyond the stud edge). Attach the stucco mould leaving about a 1/2" reveal of the jamb all the way around (both sides and the top). Miter the top corners.
 
  #13  
Old 10-06-09, 03:38 PM
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ah i see what your saying, thanks for the tip!
 
  #14  
Old 10-17-09, 04:43 PM
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well I got myself a door but have some questions again. I purchased a pre-hung door that said it mounting was 82.5 x 38in. My opening is 83x38.5 so I figured it would fit pretty well. After measuring the door fram from end to end it looks like it is only 81.5 x 37.5in. I dropped the door in to see how it would fit with the gaps and the sides aren't to bad but the top is just way to much gap. I went back to the store and started measuring other pre-hungs just in case the labeling was wrong and every other door was the same that has the same measurements as mine. What options do I have now? Having almost a 1.5" gap at the top seems rediculous to try and shim out. I was thinking maybe a 1x4 mounted to the header would work and close the gap down some but not sure if its proper or not.

Second issue which i am concerned about is where the door will be installed, the door sill plate is going to not sit flush with the concrete slab. The concrete slab goes downward a tad for water runoff and where the is start is decent the door plate comes off of it sticking straight out. I assume I can just get a different one, maybe smaller without such a big lip?
 
  #15  
Old 10-17-09, 04:49 PM
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You can install a 1X4 across the top (attached to the bottom of the header). Then you are ready to install the door. As long as you use 2-1/4" casing around the door, you'll be fine.
 
  #16  
Old 10-17-09, 05:24 PM
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Ok I just wanted to make sure the 1x4 was a fiesable idea. Thanks for the clarification.

Any ideas about the kick plate at the bottom and extended out to far to where it isn't flush with the slab>
 
  #17  
Old 10-17-09, 07:21 PM
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If the aluminum threshold extends so far past the concrete that it flexs when you step on it, I use a piece of PT 2X that's the width of the door and Tapcon it to the concrete, then countersink 3 wood screws in the aluminum and screw down into the top edge of the PT. There should be a rib that runs underneath on the aluminum that you can put the screws through.
 
  #18  
Old 10-17-09, 07:50 PM
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Thanks Lefty, I will look into that tomorrow. Should I worry about the gaps on the sides of the door? They seem to be around 5/8" or a hair over. Putting up the 1x4 in the AM so if those gaps are reasonable I won't bother trying to fill in the sides.
 
  #19  
Old 10-17-09, 08:00 PM
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5/8" on each side is fine. You'll need the room to shim the door frame to get it plumb.
 
  #20  
Old 10-17-09, 08:09 PM
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ok, I wasn't sure if having to use several shims was appropiate or not. Everything I have seen, watched or read indicated to me that the door should be no more that 3/8 or so but I will take your word on where I stand now. Thanks a ton!
 
  #21  
Old 10-17-09, 09:50 PM
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You need some 1/2" material behind the hinges, then shims or your hinges won't have enough support to carry the door to keep it from sagging prematurly. The long screws need a good backer when they go through each leaf into underneath wood, not shims. The lockset (latch) and deadbolt also need solid plywood 1/2" shim to give some strength to them as the deadbolt throw should go through the extra duty plate and into it's cubby, attached with 3" screws. Without that it would have a 5/8" gap filled with soft cedar shims or other and be the weak link in your new door.

Can you install some metal Z or garage door flashing (1-1/2x1-1/2" with drip edge) behind the stucco above the door before the install which they can mud over? Otherwise water will run down stucco behind shake moulding into garage or framing. Lay 2 or 3 beads of caulk down under sill before install and one bead up each jamb side under moulding on stucco.
Be safe, Gary
 
  #22  
Old 10-17-09, 11:55 PM
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So G, your saying to add support around the outsides to secure it best? Can I add another 1x4 on one side along with the top and be good? I don't think they make a 1/2x4 but just want to make sure I can add wood to the top and 1 side and be safe. I have no problems with that as long as its the smart thing to do. So what is the max gap technically allowed? Should I use a certain type of wood since it is such a thin base to add?

As for the flashing, from what I am told it is not needed due to the door being located under a 2ft overhang. If I were to keep the door that exited out of the bathroom then I would need some sort of flashing but since the garage door is covered well I should be ok.
 
  #23  
Old 10-18-09, 08:00 AM
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Assuming that when the door is centered in the opening and you have about a 5/8" gap on each side, only add a 3/8" or 1/2" fill (plywood strips) at each of the 3 hinges and in about the same spots on the latch side. Those are the points that you will shimming to plumb the door and anchor it in place. (You could add a 1X4 on the hinge side and nothing on the latch side and then center the door in THAT opening. Just make sure that your casing --probably 2-1/4" wide -- will cover all the way to the sheetrock.

Once the door is shimmed and anchored, install the interior casing and then us Dap Door & Window foam to partially fill the rest of the void bebetween the door jamg and the framing. READ THE INSTRUCTIONS! Don't fill more than 1/2 of the space because the foam is going to expand.
After the foam has quit expanding (I usually wait until the next day) Trim off any excess on the exterior side and then install the exterior casing.
 
  #24  
Old 10-18-09, 09:41 AM
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Ok, i maybe just confusing myself more but after looking over everything again, maybe I ust need to start over with the door itself. Since it is an exterior door leading into the garage which way does it need to swing? Does it matter if it swings inward or outward? When buying the door I was told it is more preference than anything. I went with an inward swinging door. Now since I have to mount it flush to the sheetrock in the garage to make it look right, if I screw through the hinges it looks as if I will be pretty close to the edge of the stud it would be going into.

Second: The threshold of the door is another concern. Since the threshold is facing the exterior I have the issue with it sitting level to the slab since the slab has an angle to drain away from the door. Looking at how the garage slab is it looks as if the threshold should be coming into the garage instead leading out since the garage slab is already raised higher than the concrete slab outside. You said I could use a piece of PT 2x to fill the gap but won't that not somewhat compromise the drain runoff at the garage?

Final one to end my saga, I put the 1x4 in the header and it closed up the gap great, now I dropped the door in to see where I stood with the sides and on the latch side I have roughly a 1/4" so that seems good. On the hinge side at the bottom I have about a 1/4" as well but as it goes up the gap gets a lot bigger. Everything was level when I checked but it seems as if the slab the door is sitting on actually off by a good amount causing all the big gaps up high on the hinge side. Everything measures out the same from top to bottom with the framing as well.
 
  #25  
Old 10-18-09, 09:58 AM
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Inswing or outswing is whichever you want, but you have to look at any limiting issues which may dictate that is HAS to be this way or that way.

Install the door flush to the sheetrock on the same side that the door is flush with it's jamb.

The way I'm understanding it, the door will be swinging into the house. The hinges will be inside the house. So the door is flush with the jamb on the inside of the house. If there is any variation on the garage side between the door jamb and the sheetrock in the garage, simply add trim pieces as need to the jamb to bring them out flush with the sheetrock so you can install the casing.

That should help cure your issue with the threshold as well since that will pull the threshold farther onto the edge of the slab.

I just installed a door last week in an exterior wall.I put it flush to the interior sheetrock, and because the exterior side of the wall had foam core stucco on it, I had to add 1-1/8" to the outside of the jamb to bring it out flush with the stuco so I could case the outside.
 
  #26  
Old 10-18-09, 06:21 PM
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Well it looks like it is all paying off finally! I still wasn't happy about the gaps on the sides of the door so i ran some 1/2x4 down the stud to frame it out some more. After doing so I dropped the door back in for the millionth time and it seems to make it a lot easier to shim it out properly. I did a dry mount and I have her level and plumb so this is a good sign. I do however a few last questions before I finish this project up tomorrow after work.

When mounting the hinge side how many 3" screws do I want to use? Do I do 1 through each hinge through the shims into the studs? In the direction as well it said to put a nail 2" above the bottom hinge and 2" below the top hinge to help hold in place for alignment. What about after its aligned properly, just pull them out and seal off the tiny hole. On the lock side it said you want to put shims there as well and screw threw them for support but says nothing about up high or down low for support.

Finally the threashold, I might have been a little confusing explaining the situation but maybe this can clear it up a little more. The threshold itself sits flat on the slab but the aluminum kick plate sticks out over the threshold some causing it to not be flat. I was looking around and noticed some doors had the extended aluminum and other didn't. Is there a chance to put in a different aluminum piece so it isn't as long sticking over? Theres close to 2" of just aluminum hanging over past the actual threshold. There are 4 screws at the back of the aluminum plate but I have no clue why they are there, I was hoping it might be for switching out that piece but don't want to damage anything without knowing.
 
  #27  
Old 10-18-09, 08:09 PM
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I'm assuming that the door has 3 hinges. All screws are 3". The first 3 screws on the hinge side should be placed in the stop of the jamb (you can do that from the outside with the door closed) at the same level as the hinges once it is shimmed into place. Then mov to the latch side and place 3 screws there, also in the stop, at about the same level as those in the hinge side.

Then you can open the door, replace one screw (closest to the stop) in each hinge with a 3" screw. then 3 more on the latch side, with the center one being above (or below) the strike plate.

The threshold -- because the aluminum extends past the edge of the concrete, that's where I was suggesting Tapconing the PT 2X to the slab to support the aluminum threshold. Yes, they do install threshold extensions, but only with wider jambs (6-9/16" when you are dealing with 2X6 walls).
 
  #28  
Old 10-18-09, 09:25 PM
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Do I need to do anything after going through the jamb stop to cover it up or make it so they can't be accessed from the outside. The rest of it makes sense.

I understood Tapconing the PT 2x but I would love to just avoid it all together. I just wasn't sure how complicated it would be to replace the aluminum with a shorter one since I saw them at the store. I am assuming the 4 screws connected to the threshold is to adjust the height of it as well?
 
  #29  
Old 10-18-09, 10:33 PM
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The 6 screws going through the jamb stop can be countersunk and the heads puttied over. As far as being accessible from the outside, it really doesn't matter. Even if somebody were to remove all 6, there are 6 more screws covered by the door that they couldn't access.

Replacing the threshold with a shorter one isn't all that complicated. They are just stapled onto the jamb legs. Just have to do it before you install the door.

And the 4 screws in the threshold are for adjustment -- in case there were a low spot in the slab.
 
  #30  
Old 10-20-09, 06:06 PM
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Well I must say it was a fun and steenuous project but it is done now. Lefty, thanks for sticking with me through all my repeat questions just worded differently. Some things got changed and I have no idea why I didn't do it before instead of putting everyone and myself through hell. First things first, I ditched the orignal door! I realized the threshold was going to be an issue and I really didn't want to put a piece pt 2x into the concrete outside the entrance to make it work. Returned the door and bought one that didn't have the threshold overhang, dropped it in shimmed it and went to town. The door is now in there and looks great IMO. The threshold was tapconned just to be safe but once getting the new door it literally took me about an hr to have it shimmed and ready.

I found out also that my stud on the latchside actually wasn't square, it seems from the 3rd garage settling a little it actually pulled the stud about 3/8 off from being square. After adding some 1/2x4 wood to that side the door dropped in and I barely needed to shim but all the gaps are equal within the door and everything is level. Thanks for everything and I am now positive I can handle another door without to many issues as this one seemed to throw everything at me.

THANKS AGAIN!!
 
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