garage entry door height question
#1
10-13-09, 09:44 PM
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garage entry door height question
hey
i had some time to find/locate the builders' garage entry door rough-in ......... from the garage side i found the 2 double 2x6's - 34.5" apart (32" door), nothing running in the walls of the rough in area but didn't find a header?.....
i could add a header on, but my problem is the max. height in the garage to the drywalled ceiling is 79"??......thats the max i can make the roughin opening.....
why would the builder do that am i missing something lol? is my only option a special order door?
thanks
Beer 4U2
i had some time to find/locate the builders' garage entry door rough-in ......... from the garage side i found the 2 double 2x6's - 34.5" apart (32" door), nothing running in the walls of the rough in area but didn't find a header?.....
i could add a header on, but my problem is the max. height in the garage to the drywalled ceiling is 79"??......thats the max i can make the roughin opening.....
why would the builder do that am i missing something lol? is my only option a special order door?
thanks
Beer 4U2
#2
10-14-09, 03:17 AM
Welcome to the forums! That is probably why they didn't put in a header....lack of vertical space. What type lumber is above the door area? It is possible there is already supporting lumber there, so all you would have to do is install your door. However, 79" will require modification of the door and frame, as you normally need 82" to install a normal door assembly. In addition, the door must be a fire resistant door with a self closer, so that smells like a steel door, and very difficult to modify. Give us the info on what is above the area. Or a pix posted on a site such as photobucket.com and copy/paste the IMG code in your reply would help.
#3
10-14-09, 08:02 AM
Welcomer to the forums.
Like Larry said, you opeing is 79" tall, but what's above it? How high is the ceiling on the interior side? Is there a differnce in the floor height between the house and the garage?
We can't see it, so obviously we have all questions and zero answers at this point.
Like Larry said, you opeing is 79" tall, but what's above it? How high is the ceiling on the interior side? Is there a differnce in the floor height between the house and the garage?
We can't see it, so obviously we have all questions and zero answers at this point.
#4
10-14-09, 08:18 AM
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hey .. thanks looks like there's alot of info on this site!
a pic is a good idea i'll try gettin' a couple today and posting up.......
i'm not 100% sure what type of lumber is above the door area yet -- i've only exposed the rough-in from the garage side and can only see 79" up to the ceiling of the garage
once i realized there was no header and only 79" of vertical space in the garage i stopped and didn't expose the rough-in from inside the house.......
i'll work on some pic's
a pic is a good idea i'll try gettin' a couple today and posting up.......
i'm not 100% sure what type of lumber is above the door area yet -- i've only exposed the rough-in from the garage side and can only see 79" up to the ceiling of the garage
once i realized there was no header and only 79" of vertical space in the garage i stopped and didn't expose the rough-in from inside the house.......
i'll work on some pic's
#5
10-14-09, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by lefty
Welcomer to the forums.
Like Larry said, you opeing is 79" tall, but what's above it? How high is the ceiling on the interior side? Is there a differnce in the floor height between the house and the garage?
We can't see it, so obviously we have all questions and zero answers at this point.
Like Larry said, you opeing is 79" tall, but what's above it? How high is the ceiling on the interior side? Is there a differnce in the floor height between the house and the garage?
We can't see it, so obviously we have all questions and zero answers at this point.
as for the floor height.....the garage floor is about 3 steps lower than the floor height of where the door will sit (interior floor)
i will get some pics and measurements today
thanks!
#7
10-14-09, 08:50 PM
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ok got some pic's and measurements....
the half rough-in i got from the builder is between the central vac plug and wall outlet so from the inside more than enuff room for a door
on the garage side, my interior floor height is 31 1/4" above my garage floor
my next measurement from the interior floor level up to where the ceiling meets the wall is 79"........like i've said i reached up past the ceiling level and there's no header in the wall
the header i can do, it's the 79" vertical height that's screwed me up -- knowing i need a steel door that can't be shortened like an interior....
directly above the garage is a bedroom
the half rough-in i got from the builder is between the central vac plug and wall outlet so from the inside more than enuff room for a door
on the garage side, my interior floor height is 31 1/4" above my garage floor
my next measurement from the interior floor level up to where the ceiling meets the wall is 79"........like i've said i reached up past the ceiling level and there's no header in the wall
the header i can do, it's the 79" vertical height that's screwed me up -- knowing i need a steel door that can't be shortened like an interior....
directly above the garage is a bedroom
#8
10-14-09, 09:45 PM
(Allow me to miquote you here, bet get the idea across.) "The interior floor to the garage ceiling is 79". Now, above the garage is a bedroom. (Pardon me -- I'm thinking outloud) The floor joists of that upstairs bedroom HAVE to be tied into something pretty substanstial above the wall in question. Can that wall tolerate a 36" (+/-) opening without a header??
(Chandler, where are you??)
The floor joists have to be at least 2X10's. They terminate at the wall in question. (The room on the other side has a 9' ceiling.) Garage floor, plus 3 steps (21", give or take) to the interior floor, and from there 9' to the interior ceiling -- the interior ceiling is nearly 11' above the garage floor.
One_Kut, you got "the rough-in" from the builder. Talk to him and have him correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm GUESSING that there is a dbl 2X10 or 2X12 that those bedroom floor joists terminate into in that wall -- at the very least a single 2X the same height as the floor joists of the bedroom. For a 3' wide opening, THAT is your header.
IF that is correct, I think that the door is doable.
An 80" pre-hung metal door, get rid of the stock thershold and go to a 1/2" tall "low boy", cut the jamb to the lower height, cut off the bottom of the metal door and use a "U" shaped shoe at the bottom of the door (that hides the cut). ABout the only draw back is that will lower the lockset and deadbolt a couple of inches -- UNLESS you order the door WITHOUT the lockset and deadbolt holes in it and cut your own!!
You'll end up with a door that is a few inches shorter than the standard 80" doo, but at least you'll be able to go directly from the house to the garage. THAT'S A BIG PLUS!!!
(Chandler, where are you??)
The floor joists have to be at least 2X10's. They terminate at the wall in question. (The room on the other side has a 9' ceiling.) Garage floor, plus 3 steps (21", give or take) to the interior floor, and from there 9' to the interior ceiling -- the interior ceiling is nearly 11' above the garage floor.
One_Kut, you got "the rough-in" from the builder. Talk to him and have him correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm GUESSING that there is a dbl 2X10 or 2X12 that those bedroom floor joists terminate into in that wall -- at the very least a single 2X the same height as the floor joists of the bedroom. For a 3' wide opening, THAT is your header.
IF that is correct, I think that the door is doable.
An 80" pre-hung metal door, get rid of the stock thershold and go to a 1/2" tall "low boy", cut the jamb to the lower height, cut off the bottom of the metal door and use a "U" shaped shoe at the bottom of the door (that hides the cut). ABout the only draw back is that will lower the lockset and deadbolt a couple of inches -- UNLESS you order the door WITHOUT the lockset and deadbolt holes in it and cut your own!!
You'll end up with a door that is a few inches shorter than the standard 80" doo, but at least you'll be able to go directly from the house to the garage. THAT'S A BIG PLUS!!!
#9
10-14-09, 10:23 PM
Measure the garage ceiling compared to the ceiling in the room the new door will go into, from the floor at the new door location. Is the garage ceiling lower? By how much?
The door may not have to be steel, depends on what is acceptable with your local Building Department.
"12. GARAGE SEPARATION FROM DWELLING: 1/2 inch gypsum wall board on garage side of wall with a 1 3/8 inch solid or 20 minute door self closing"
It also needs to be weather-stripped for smoke barrier, which is standard from the box stores. You may need a special "bomber" hinge, under $20. (self-closing)
Be safe, Gary
The door may not have to be steel, depends on what is acceptable with your local Building Department.
"12. GARAGE SEPARATION FROM DWELLING: 1/2 inch gypsum wall board on garage side of wall with a 1 3/8 inch solid or 20 minute door self closing"
It also needs to be weather-stripped for smoke barrier, which is standard from the box stores. You may need a special "bomber" hinge, under $20. (self-closing)
Be safe, Gary
#10
10-14-09, 11:09 PM
Hey Gary,
One_Kut has pretty much done that. Starting at the garage floor, it's 3 steps up to the floor of the interior room of the house -- 21" give or take. The interior room has a 9' ceiling, so that's way above the garage ceiling since One_Kut only has height enough for a 79" high RO for the door from the interior room to the garage. (I know, it's tough -- One_Kut is MAKING US THINK!!!)
I understand what you are saying about the firewall codes of this IRC thing. You are correct -- that's exactly what's called for. But I don't know of one builder here in the 4 northern counties of CA who is going to do ANY LESS THAN 5/8 'rock on that wall between the garage and the house, and pre-hung metal doors there are cheaper than solid core 1-3/8" doors, and both meet code, so why go there??? I'm also well aware that this IRC code no longer calls for rebar in the stem wall of the foundation, but out of the 35 or 40 builders that I have talked to, NONE of them will do the foundation without rebar!
The adoption of the IRC gave the guys corners to cut (at least in their minds), and NONE of them have choosen to cut THOSE corners. That's the mindset of the builders in No. CA -- "We've been doing it this way for close to 50 years without problems, so why go to something less??"
I don't build houses. I just build decks and patio covers. (And if you think a house is tough under the IRC, TRY A DECK!!!
One_Kut has pretty much done that. Starting at the garage floor, it's 3 steps up to the floor of the interior room of the house -- 21" give or take. The interior room has a 9' ceiling, so that's way above the garage ceiling since One_Kut only has height enough for a 79" high RO for the door from the interior room to the garage. (I know, it's tough -- One_Kut is MAKING US THINK!!!)
I understand what you are saying about the firewall codes of this IRC thing. You are correct -- that's exactly what's called for. But I don't know of one builder here in the 4 northern counties of CA who is going to do ANY LESS THAN 5/8 'rock on that wall between the garage and the house, and pre-hung metal doors there are cheaper than solid core 1-3/8" doors, and both meet code, so why go there??? I'm also well aware that this IRC code no longer calls for rebar in the stem wall of the foundation, but out of the 35 or 40 builders that I have talked to, NONE of them will do the foundation without rebar!
The adoption of the IRC gave the guys corners to cut (at least in their minds), and NONE of them have choosen to cut THOSE corners. That's the mindset of the builders in No. CA -- "We've been doing it this way for close to 50 years without problems, so why go to something less??"
I don't build houses. I just build decks and patio covers. (And if you think a house is tough under the IRC, TRY A DECK!!!
#11
10-15-09, 12:36 PM
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hey
thanks for the replies.........
one correction i screwed up - 8 ft interior ceilings
so i've got 96" of interior vertical space and 79" on the garage side......
i got thinking of this today -- will this work? -- if i buy a standard prehung entry door 80", and from the interior side add a header to the king/jack studs already there and create the proper 82.5" rough opening -- so far i don't see the short garage side preventing me from doing that right?.......
i then install my 80" prehung door and have it swinging inside the house -- which is what i want anyways........
the downside to this is i will see 1" give or take of garage ceiling when the door opens (i can live with that).......
the only problem i can see is the door jamb on the garage side at the ceiling might need some modifications...........
opinions?
thanks for the replies.........
one correction i screwed up - 8 ft interior ceilings
so i've got 96" of interior vertical space and 79" on the garage side......
i got thinking of this today -- will this work? -- if i buy a standard prehung entry door 80", and from the interior side add a header to the king/jack studs already there and create the proper 82.5" rough opening -- so far i don't see the short garage side preventing me from doing that right?.......
i then install my 80" prehung door and have it swinging inside the house -- which is what i want anyways........
the downside to this is i will see 1" give or take of garage ceiling when the door opens (i can live with that).......
the only problem i can see is the door jamb on the garage side at the ceiling might need some modifications...........
opinions?
#12
10-15-09, 12:46 PM
The interior floor to the garage ceiling is 79". Instead of an 80" door, why not a 78" door? That would eliminate you seeing the garage ceiling when you open it, but more importantly, it would require less work on the garage side to get it cased.
Other than that, everything you mentioned is fine. Work from the interior side and install the header and go from there.
Other than that, everything you mentioned is fine. Work from the interior side and install the header and go from there.
#13
10-15-09, 06:20 PM
I agree with Mike, on getting a shorter door, even if it has to be custom cut. You will be far ahead of the game than trying to put a 10 lb. butt in a 5 lb. pair of pants.
Are you standing in the garage on photo #2 or in the house?
And, Mike, you're holding your own!
Are you standing in the garage on photo #2 or in the house?
And, Mike, you're holding your own!
#14
10-15-09, 07:26 PM
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yeah you're right about a 78" door being easier overall........i'm gonna have to check out prices around here for a custom 78" -- the 80" was easier for price and the home depot has a tonne of them instock
i'm guessing a 78" would take a week or two........
i'm guessing a 78" would take a week or two........
#15
10-15-09, 08:34 PM
Price shouldn't be all that bad. 78" is also a standard door height, just not thaat much call for them. HD supplier has some in the warehouseI'm sure, so probably more like just waiting for the truck to arrive -- a few days.
#16
10-16-09, 08:05 AM
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Uhhhh...I don't think a 78" door will fit a 79" opening....will it? Doesn't it need 79 1/2 at the very minimum? Its still kinda early, first cuppa joe.
And a stock 78" steel door may be more difficult than you think...as of about 2 yrs ago, in the VA HD's, that was a custom cut...with a health upcharge attached and a 2 to 4 week lead time. They also slapped a sticker on that said any warranty was voided...don't know if that included the fire rating. When Masonite bought out Stanley..they pretty much discontinued them as a stock size.
When I had a real lumber yard around..they had prehung flush solid core doors that met code and would cut them for you. Then attach the threshold and yer good to go.
Just some thoughts...no expert. I do wonder though..why didn't the builder make the opening large enough? And why didn't he put in a door? Was this an added on garage?
Just curious...
And a stock 78" steel door may be more difficult than you think...as of about 2 yrs ago, in the VA HD's, that was a custom cut...with a health upcharge attached and a 2 to 4 week lead time. They also slapped a sticker on that said any warranty was voided...don't know if that included the fire rating. When Masonite bought out Stanley..they pretty much discontinued them as a stock size.
When I had a real lumber yard around..they had prehung flush solid core doors that met code and would cut them for you. Then attach the threshold and yer good to go.
Just some thoughts...no expert. I do wonder though..why didn't the builder make the opening large enough? And why didn't he put in a door? Was this an added on garage?
Just curious...
#17
10-16-09, 08:23 AM
Gunguy, If I'm understanding One_Kut correctly, by working from the inside, he can make the RO 79-1/2" or even 80" so that a 78" door would fit. The only real issue then would be that the garage ceiling sheetrock will hit the top of the door jamb rather than be above it. But it wouldn't be in the opening of the door. And since he's special ordering the door anyway, he might see that a 77" door would work even better.
My guess is that somebody missed it on the house plans. Would have been nothing to pour the stem wall for the garage and the bdrm. above it 3" taller -- problem wouldn't exist. But the bldr. didn't see it until it was framed, and too late to change it then. Sheetrock over it.
My guess is that somebody missed it on the house plans. Would have been nothing to pour the stem wall for the garage and the bdrm. above it 3" taller -- problem wouldn't exist. But the bldr. didn't see it until it was framed, and too late to change it then. Sheetrock over it.
#18
10-20-09, 09:55 AM
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ok.......couple more questions 
i removed some drywall from the inside to see exactly what the builder had left me.......
there is a header there (2 2x8's) but it's right at the top and gives a vertical rough opening on the interior side of 86" (isn't that 4" too high for a standard 80" door anyway??)
so........i'm gonna go with a 78" door.......are there any issues with me moving the header down 6" to the proper location and then adding small cripple studs above the header to the top-plate 2x6?? keeping in mind its a loadbearing wall i'm not sure if there's anything else i should be doing.....
the 2 wires they have running along the header now might be a small issue when adding the small cripple studs in that place but........figure something out
this pic shows the level of the garage ceiling - top of the cutout- and the height of the header, a diff of about 6 or 7" .......
i removed some drywall from the inside to see exactly what the builder had left me.......
there is a header there (2 2x8's) but it's right at the top and gives a vertical rough opening on the interior side of 86" (isn't that 4" too high for a standard 80" door anyway??)
so........i'm gonna go with a 78" door.......are there any issues with me moving the header down 6" to the proper location and then adding small cripple studs above the header to the top-plate 2x6?? keeping in mind its a loadbearing wall i'm not sure if there's anything else i should be doing.....
the 2 wires they have running along the header now might be a small issue when adding the small cripple studs in that place but........figure something out
this pic shows the level of the garage ceiling - top of the cutout- and the height of the header, a diff of about 6 or 7" .......
#19
10-20-09, 11:14 AM
I would leave the existing header where it is and simply cut off the studs that we are seein in the pictures so that they are 1-1/2" above where you RO needs to be then add a 2X6 (flat) across the opening.
What's there right now is properly nailed in place -- why mess with it??
What's there right now is properly nailed in place -- why mess with it??
#20
10-20-09, 10:16 PM
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yeah that's an option........would be easy to do also.
and structurally it doesn't change anything the header is still transffering the weight/load down the other 2x6's on the sides......
and structurally it doesn't change anything the header is still transffering the weight/load down the other 2x6's on the sides......
#21
10-21-09, 03:34 AM
Exactly, but it won't address the cables running across the header. You should have 2 1/2" of space left between the half header and the sheetrock on the camera side of the picture. You have to deal with that in order to install sheetrock above the door framing. If you can, remove the staples in the cables, move them together and install 2" wide strips above and below them in a combination of 2- ea 1/2" plywood and 1- ea 2x lumber. That will give you a nailing surface for your sheetrock and will provide a "no nail" space (chase) for the cables, since it will be 2" back from the surface.
