Three way deadbolt?

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Old 12-06-09, 05:21 PM
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Three way deadbolt?

The quickest way into the house is through the front door, locked or not. Most deadbolts go into a strikeplate that's held to the door frame by inch, maybe inch and a half long wood screws. The strikeplate is usually cheap sheet metal.

A good kick or solid hit with some weight behind it can shred a stock sheet metal strike plate or easily rip those weak screws out of the thin wood of the door frame...


Not mine.

I've replaced my strike plate with a section of 1/8th inch thick steel bar... (Old cut piece of bed frame. It's really dense steel.) And the wood screws are replaced with 4 inch lag bolts that go into the studs behind the door frame. (There are two studs back to back. The bolts go through both, in addition to the door frame.)

I still need to pull the bed frame piece off and anneal it. (Heat it orange hot with a torch and dip it in used engine oil.) Then grind the heads down on the lag bolts so that they're flush with the door frame and coat the entire assembly with wood putty so that it's not visible. But it's still functional.

The hinges on the other side of the door have 4 inch screws into the door frame/doubled studs and into the door itself... Three hinges with four screws into the frame each and four into the door each... That's twelve screws on that side.

There are no windows near the door so one can't just smash out the windows and reach in to turn the deadbolt. Seems pretty secure to me.


Anyhow, in the future, I'd like to further increase the security.
It seems as though the hinge side of the door is pretty well secure, the dead bolt side only has those two lag bolts and the dead bolt as the weakest point.

If one dead bolt is good. More should be better.

I think I'd like to install three dead bolts in the door... One in the center at typical dead bolt height, and then one at the top and one and the bottom.

Not only would it eliminate the single point of failure, but it'd also distribute the load if someone were to use a battering ram or something.

Nobody'd even see it coming. The bottom one would be covered by the kick plate. The top one could be covered by some other trim maybe...

What I'm looking for is a set of three deadbolts that can be actuated by a single lock cylinder...

Anyone ever seen such a thing?
 
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Old 12-06-09, 05:34 PM
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Why don't you just install a security door on the outside? Can't kick those in because they open out.

What about your windows? How are you securing those?
 
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Old 12-06-09, 05:39 PM
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I think I've seen multi point locks like that in Italy and elsewhere......but retrofitting to a standard US entry door might be costly. The machining to fit it to the door would probably even weaken the door itself.

I'd imagine just fitting 2 more keyed alike deadbolts would be just as effective...and much less costly. Don't put them too high or low though.

Where in VA are ya that its that bad? I lived there for 20 yrs..and I never worried THAT much...lol. Sounds like you want a Maxwell Smart door...
 
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Old 12-06-09, 06:12 PM
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So I'll bet your roof deckking is wood or even worse OSB. How long do yo thing it would take a 18v Sawzall with a wrecking blade to cut an 18"X18" hole in your roof?
 
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Old 12-06-09, 06:20 PM
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If I wanted in, I'd get in. I'd look at your triple deadbolt lock on your well lit porch, move around to a darker, weaker part, cut a hole in the side of the house if necessary. ( I can still fit through 14 1/2" studs by the way). Walk in, walk out. BUT, you ain't got nothing I need. Concentrate on the weak parts of your house. Too many lit up front door entrys on the Broadman Security advertisements. It don't happen in real life.
 
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Old 12-06-09, 07:18 PM
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For all those questioning my security motives:
Maybe I should just leave my doors and windows wide open with all the valuables out in the living room on display for the people who I trust not to steal them...

I own guns, I suppose criminals usually go and procure guns through legal methods, buying them from a licensed gun broker.

I own lots of automotive tools, computer equipment, home theater electronics. Not to mention, there are psychopaths that'll just kill people for the fun of it.

I don't have a family yet, I'm only 28... But when I do, I think it'd be a good idea to protect them. What better place to secure your valuables than in a vault, and what better way to make a vault than to turn your house into one...

Originally Posted by drooplug View Post
Why don't you just install a security door on the outside? Can't kick those in because they open out.

What about your windows? How are you securing those?
Interesting idea about the security door. They look like ass, but I suppose security trumps aesthetics...

For glass, you can purchase laminates that resist shattering... If I had bigger money (IE roll it into the mortgage on new construction) I'd get multilayer glass laminated with lexan or lucite or some other polycarbonate...

Originally Posted by Gunguy45 View Post
I think I've seen multi point locks like that in Italy and elsewhere......but retrofitting to a standard US entry door might be costly. The machining to fit it to the door would probably even weaken the door itself.

I'd imagine just fitting 2 more keyed alike deadbolts would be just as effective...and much less costly. Don't put them too high or low though.

Where in VA are ya that its that bad? I lived there for 20 yrs..and I never worried THAT much...lol. Sounds like you want a Maxwell Smart door...
Most doors I've seen are steel shells on a foam core. Would removing some foam weaken the door that much? Or should I be looking into solid wood for security?
Solid steel?

The extra standard deadbolts would be visible on the outside.

You ever take something apart and miss a fastener, so you poke around pulling it apart, flexing the item... looking for the tight spot to find the remaining screw... I'd want it to be less possible to find the remaining deadbolts in the event that the intruder has the opportunity to press on the door and flex it.

One deadbolt, flex on the top and bottom and you find that it's in the middle. Two and you don't have the central knob... Three's the magic number... Top, Bottom, and center.

It's not that bad here. I just think I could do with a little better security either here or in a future home.

Originally Posted by ray2047 View Post
So I'll bet your roof deckking is wood or even worse OSB. How long do yo thing it would take a 18v Sawzall with a wrecking blade to cut an 18"X18" hole in your roof?
Cutting a hole in the roof would do the trick. I suppose I'll have to deal with that.

If I'm home, by the time you got through the roof, the noise would have alerted me and two things would have transpired before I greet you inside:
-The paramedics would be called to clean up the mess that will ensue
-One or more of my guns would be loaded and ready to go... 12Ga Mossberg 590 shotgun, AK-47, or 9mm pistol. All three sit near my bed.

Originally Posted by chandler View Post
If I wanted in, I'd get in. I'd look at your triple deadbolt lock on your well lit porch, move around to a darker, weaker part, cut a hole in the side of the house if necessary. ( I can still fit through 14 1/2" studs by the way). Walk in, walk out. BUT, you ain't got nothing I need. Concentrate on the weak parts of your house. Too many lit up front door entrys on the Broadman Security advertisements. It don't happen in real life.
You wouldn't see the triple deadbolt, that's the whole point... From the outside you'd see the typical front door, try to kick it in, fail, and I'd be alerted... See above what happens when I'm alerted to an intruder in the middle of the night.

Actually, if I'm not expecting anyone. (My friends call before they show up.) I answer the door with one hand on my side arm. The Jehovah's witnesses have stopped coming by... I wonder why.

Besides, the house is brick and poured concrete. I will never own wooden construction after having this house... And it's my first house.
 
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Old 12-06-09, 07:25 PM
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Use two mortise door bolts which would simulate a deadbolt and have individual turn latches on one side,That eliminates the cylinder on the outside and the need for them to connect.

Example:
Baldwin Forged Brass Mortise Door Bolt

But like others have said,unless somehow there are no other potential weaknesses in your home you need to think beyond the door.

I'd certainly consider a security system which would cover far more than any lock and frankly your level of paranoia would make their day.
 
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Old 12-06-09, 07:40 PM
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^

By definition, an alarm system can not prevent intrusion... It is therefore useless.

I live in Northern VA, there are gangs like MS13 up here and with the economic downturn and upcoming holidays, it's been said that home invasions are on the rise. (Though I can't find statistics.)

Here, this should comfort some of you guys that think I'm paranoid:
http://www.ehow.com/about_4568364_th...-massacre.html

That happened in Wichita, Kansas... Land of... Corn Fields and tornadoes...
I live about 30 mins south of Washington D.C. Where a cocaine addict was mayor for several terms and still sits on the city council.
 
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Old 12-07-09, 05:40 AM
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Andersen, Peachtree and other mfgs make a door with a 3-point lock system built in; your typical deadbolt, as well as a head and foot (built inside the door - you can't see it.).

Won't be there in time for Christmas, but it's a thought...
 
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Old 12-07-09, 09:32 AM
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Pele you can't go through life expecting the worst regardless of what happened somewhere.you play to odds and sleep at night.you live somewhere near Fredericksburg.Not exactly a high crime area.

If you can't live there without creating a fortress you need to move to somewhere you are comfortable in instead of trying to replicate fort knox.It isn't possible to completely stop all possiblitiy of break ins.

Plus what happens when you leave your home?Can you stop muggers,car jackers etc?No and not even if you carry major firepower.

Look there are easy plenty reasonable ways to secure your home well enough.
 
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Old 12-07-09, 10:11 AM
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I'd say what spdavid listed might be a good choice...but you'd still have 3 interior thumbturns...if thats not an issue then that would prob be best for your need.

When I was talking about weakening the door...I was referring more to the multipoint setups operated by one central handle. You'd have to hog out so much wood on the edge of the standard door it would prob weaken it. The ones I remember seeing overseas, the doors were massive..like 2" thick and very very solid. Matter of fact I knew a guy that got his villa broken into...not through a door or window though..they used something like a pick and just went right through the stucco walls...

Using the mortice in type as listed, you only have to drill a hole...though really, I'm not sure how strong that will be ta tell ya the truth. I've never installed one..but it seems like it would be susceptible to splitting the door skins since it doesn't "clamp" them together like a standard deadbolt. Dunno about that one...

Just to note though (and I'm NOT raggin on you, I understand the desire for security)...what about when you aren't home? The mortice in bolts can't be locked from outside...and when you are home...the security is pretty much already there.

OH...there are some nice looking security doors out there (not the stock ones carried at Home Improvement stores), but the nice looking and secure ones sure aren't cheap.
 
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Old 12-07-09, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by George View Post
Andersen, Peachtree and other mfgs make a door with a 3-point lock system built in; your typical deadbolt, as well as a head and foot (built inside the door - you can't see it.).

Won't be there in time for Christmas, but it's a thought...
That's exactly what I'm looking for! I just found an example on Andersen's 400 series patio door. Now I know what to look for in other doors.

I'm not trying to create Fort Knox.... But I'm not gonna put a little bedroom style Kwikset type lock on my front or patio doors either.
 
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Old 12-07-09, 10:49 AM
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That's exactly what I was talking about...but you'll have to probably replace the whole door. And unless I'm mistaken that's only available on patio doors. I guess there may be some premium entry doors that have it available.

Unless one of our lock experts knows of something that can be retrofit. Actually I just realized this wasn't the lock forum...might want to post over there using cut and paste or a link to this.

I don't think they come over to this forum very much..if at all.

Oh...just found this while doing a "retrofit multi point lock systems"

http://www.dealerssupplyandlumber.com/20.htm
 
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Old 12-07-09, 03:12 PM
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^

Nah, I won't be retrofitting this house. It's for new construction.

I just scored a cool deal on a couple acres on Buggs Island Lake a few hours south. (On the border with NC.)

I'm playing with ideas for a floorplan and construction, but wanna have my materials down.
 
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Old 12-07-09, 03:46 PM
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Pele -

Just give everyone the zip code of the project you are considering since no one wants to be paranoid about the local security and crime problems.

I lived in VA for 7 years (Chesapeake & Virginia Beach) and never locked the door even when we were gone for a trip to to DC, CT or PA. Security is dependent on the neighbors and the local security.

You may feel comfortable in NC because of the "red neck" influence and the availability of gun stores, which may be good or bad. Southern rural VA an NC is not like being near DC because many problems are just accepted and never reported (just like murders in NYC). - Great people in NC/VA, but just a different philosophy and you have to be accepted.

Dick

If you are considering a barrier island property, look into the area and neighbors and recognize that all of that area may give you ocean frontage for a while. - It is not like Fredriksberg or Spotsylvania or Springfield.
 
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Old 12-07-09, 05:44 PM
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Zip code is 24529, Buffalo Junction, VA.
All the roads are labeled State Route... I can't even find my own lot on Google Maps.
 
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Old 12-15-09, 04:19 AM
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I'm not sure why people feel the need to reply and question the objectives of what someone wants to do with their house. What he wants to do isn't going to cause any problems. I know a lot of people are securing their homes these days, some more than most.

I am sure he realizes there are more ways to get into a house than a door. He basically just wants more of a buffer between the intruders getting into the house and him being ready to defend his home (at least, that is what I gather). Sure they can get in by breaking a window, but that is loud. Breaking open a door of the caliber he is talking about, loud. Cutting a hole in the house or roof? Sure that would work, but it's loud and less likely the method for the usual intruder that wants to get in.

Hope you find what you are looking for. I am going to work on securing my house a bit more as well, but I don't know if I'll need the heavy duty door you're looking at
 
 

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