Is this window fixable?


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Old 08-17-11, 06:27 PM
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Is this window fixable?

Hello,

I hope you guys can bring some good news.

One of the locks (not even sure this is a 'lock', excuse my ignorance about the actual name of this part), the part at the bottom of the sash that the window sits on, "locks" the sash and prevent it from falling down, is broken. Both sides. All the windows in the house are exactly the same (different sizes, but same make, model, etc). These are vinyl windows.

I thought I'll be smart by taking the part from another window and replace with the broken part, but as far as I can see, it's not even possible to take this part out of the window.
If this is not clear from the image, a turn of the black round plastic part, where the sash sits, releases or locks (slows down) the up/down movement of the sash. Again, I apologize for not using the correct part name.

Any hope here? I hope I don't have to replace the entire window and I'd hate my daughter to use a piece of 2X4 to hold the window open all the time.

Thanks in advance.

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(Sorry, for the life of me, I cannot post pictures in this forum. Not sure why.)
 
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Old 08-17-11, 06:57 PM
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Those are called "pivot shoes". The spiral part that connects to them is called a "spiral balance." It doesn't appear to me that anything is broken, however if one of the spiral balances has come off of the pivot shoe, then it's likely that the spiral balance is what needs to be replaced.

The spiral balance is covered up by a vinyl strip that snaps into the side of the frame. If you pull on the bottom of it with your finger you can remove it. (mark them left and right, and which side points toward the interior before you take them out, so that you don't get confused when you go to put them back in.) You would need to know the length of the balance and its spring rating. Usually that is determined by the color of the plastic cap on the spiral balance. You would also need a special tool that is used to wind the balance (creating the spring tension) and the tool is used to hang onto the bottom of the balance (so that it can't spin) and then reconnect it to the pivot shoe.

If you can take a screwdriver, turn the pivot 90 degrees, and the pivot shoe slides up and down freely, and it locks when you turn it back 90 degrees, and there are no visible broken pieces, then the pivot shoe is probably fine and does not need to be replaced.

You can google "spiral balance" and probably come up with dozens of hits. Get the winding tool too.
 
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Old 08-17-11, 07:25 PM
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XSleeper - Thanks for your response.

My bad for not mentioning - this is the good Pivot Shoe (now that I know what it's called). The Pivot Shoe is what's broken in the other window and this the part that looks like it cannot be removed from the slot it sits in. Sorry for not being clear.
 
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Old 08-17-11, 08:08 PM
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Gotcha. You are right about them not being removable... they are inserted into the frame in the factory prior to it being assembled.

Not all is lost, however. There is a way to get them out without doing "too much" damage to the window.

Every vinyl double-hung window has snap in "stops" located on the frame. When you lift the lower window sash all the way up, it bumps into these stops at the TOP of the window, which limit the travel of the window. The upper window sash is the same way- when you lower the upper window all the way, it will bump into stops at the BOTTOM of the window.

So depending on which pivot shoe is broken, you would remove the stop from that particular track. you would then take a sharp utility knife and do some surgery. Your pivot shoe is something like 2 1/2" long. So you will want to make a hole that is 2 1/2" long in the fin that prevents the pivot shoe from coming out. Make this hole in a place where it will be covered by the stop that you took off so that it will be hidden. Basically you are making an access hole so that you can get the pivot shoe out. You are also leaving enough vinyl above and below this hole so that the vinyl stop can snap back into place, hiding most of the repair. I have had pretty good success cutting just ONE side of the frame, not both sides... since all you really need is one side open in order to let the pivot shoe swing out. (picture a door on a hinge- that is how the pivot shoe will swing out once you make the hole on one side.) I always make the hole on the side of the track that is toward the center "parting stop" of the window. It will be the least visible when you are done, and a tiny bit of white silicone in the corner will hide the repair.

There are a million and one types and sizes of pivot shoe, so if you Google "pivot shoe" you will probably come up with a lot of choices. Careful measuring is needed to get the right part. length, width and thickness to the closest 1/16th. Also the shape of the center portion is important- the part that the pivot bar fits into.

You will still need the winding tool unless you are real handy with two pair of needle nose pliers.

Hope this helps, if it's unclear just ask.
 
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Old 08-18-11, 03:53 AM
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Thank you XSleeper!

What is the winding tool and what do I need it for?

Also, I read somewhere about using a heat gun to expand the frame, which allows enough room for the pivot shoe to come out without cutting. Any idea if this works as well?
 
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Old 08-18-11, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by SBI
Thank you XSleeper!

What is the winding tool and what do I need it for?

Also, I read somewhere about using a heat gun to expand the frame, which allows enough room for the pivot shoe to come out without cutting. Any idea if this works as well?
Like I mentioned earlier, the spiral balances need to be "wound" to create spring tension, which is what gives the balance it's power to hold the window up when you lift it. It is the reason the window is falling down when you open it, requiring you to prop it open with a board.

Once the pivot shoe is installed, you wind the balance, counterclockwise about 5-8 turns, until it has spring tension as you work it up and down. Once it has spring tension, you hook the bottom end of the spiral balance into the pivot shoe.

I have never tried the heat gun idea, but no I do not believe it would work. I also think it would damage the frame more than cutting, especially since you could not do it at the very top or bottom of the frame without some cutting, (the fin at the bottom and top can't bend because of the head and sill of the window) so you would have to bend the frame in the middle where the window slides, which would be risky, IMO, since it would affect the operation of the window. If you made a couple incisions and then tried to bend it (instead of cutting that flap entirely off) that "might" work.
 
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Old 08-18-11, 07:35 PM
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OK. I thought that the shoe's lock is what's preventing the window from falling. By turning it, it locks against the frame and holds the window.
 
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Old 08-18-11, 08:12 PM
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when the window is closed, the pivot shoe is open and can slide up and down freely, as controlled by the tension on the spiral balance. when the spiral balance isnt hooked up, or isnt wound tight, that is why the window falls down. when you tip the window down to clean, that is when it is locked tight and cant move.
 
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Old 08-19-11, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by XSleeper
when the window is closed, the pivot shoe is open and can slide up and down freely, as controlled by the tension on the spiral balance. when the spiral balance isnt hooked up, or isnt wound tight, that is why the window falls down. when you tip the window down to clean, that is when it is locked tight and cant move.
Ah ha. So maybe the spiral is bad too because the window wouldn't hold that good when it was in closed position. Nonetheless, the pivot shoe is now broken and needs to be replaced.
How can you tell if the spiral balance is bad?
 
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Old 08-19-11, 04:38 AM
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Take a needle nose pliers, grip the bottom tip of the spiral part, and twist it counterclockwise about 5-8 turns. If it's still good, you will feel it develop spring tension. As you pull it up and down you will feel that it will have some resistance as you pull it down and as you raise it back up again it will kind of feel like it wants to go up on its own. When you let it go, it will spring back (unravelling the same amount of turns that you put on it). If it is broken inside, it will just turn and turn without developing any spring tension.

Sometimes they get sticky and they will pull down, but not pull up. You might have some success by spraying wd-40 or another lubricant on the spiral part, then work them up and down, wipe it clean, and repeat- until you have cleaned the gunk out of the interior of the balance. If the balance is too sticky inside (they need some lubricant inside) when you raise the window, the balance will come unhooked from the pivot shoe, and if the balance is unhooked the window will fall down when you open it.

So it is either sticky or broken. Sometimes they are so sticky that it's better to just buy new ones. I've always imagined that the spring coil is sticking to the outside of the plastic/steel tube they are in. Maybe if a guy took them off and soaked them in solvent it would free them up again, but I've never tried. Getting new ones is easier.
 
 

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