Storm door handle hits entry door deadbolt

Reply

  #1  
Old 11-14-11, 06:58 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: us
Posts: 49
Storm door handle hits entry door deadbolt

Hi All,
I went down to pick up one of those fancy Andersen 4000 series storm doors (roll-up screen, fancy latching) but when I saw how far the handle protruded on the interior side, I decided to go home and do some more measuring.

We have one of those electronic deadbolts and it looks to me like the storm door handle is going to hit smack-dab in the middle of the keypad. Looks like the keypad sticks out too far for the storm door to close all the way too (about 1/4").

I don't know how adjustable these storm doors are but I need to either shim out the storm door 3/8" or move the storm door handle up about 1-1/2" to clear the deadbolt. Can't really flip the storm door to the other side as you'd have to walk off the porch to get around the door when opening it.

A few thoughts were either shimming out the backside of the brickmould 3/8" or so (not sure how that's going to look). or just finding another door with "shallower" hardware. Any thoughts?

Thanks!
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 11-14-11, 07:23 AM
Gunguy45's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 20,979
The 4000 series uses a mortice in lock, so you can't move it. Everything is precut and drilled for the hardware.

You'll either have to shim out the brickmold or build it up in the front. Doing it from the front would be easier.

When I worked at HD, our installers did this all the time. They sure weren't going to do all the work of shimming the brickmold for the money they got paid for a storm door install.

You'll need to check that your threshold/sill will extend far enough out for the door to seal at the bottom. Some won't if you shim the door out very much.

You may also need to buy longer screws for the frame to ensure that you bite into the actual BM, not just the built up area.
 
  #3  
Old 11-14-11, 07:40 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: us
Posts: 49
Originally Posted by Gunguy45 View Post
The 4000 series uses a mortice in lock, so you can't move it. Everything is precut and drilled for the hardware.

You'll either have to shim out the brickmold or build it up in the front. Doing it from the front would be easier.
Sure would be. What's a common way to build up the front? Another piece of BM and notch a "step" in the backside to fit over the existing BM?

Originally Posted by Gunguy45 View Post
You'll need to check that your threshold/sill will extend far enough out for the door to seal at the bottom. Some won't if you shim the door out very much.

You may also need to buy longer screws for the frame to ensure that you bite into the actual BM, not just the built up area.
Ahh.. good points to remember. Thanks.
 
  #4  
Old 11-14-11, 08:08 AM
Gunguy45's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 20,979
If you tried to use another piece of BM with some sort of notch...it would throw your measurements off and push the door way out to the exterior.

Some of our guys would buy precut stock from the molding aisle. All they did were storm doors and garage door openers so they didn't carry a tablesaw to the site.

Our other full service installers would rip down boards or 2X lumber to the exact size they needed. Nail to the existing BM with finish nails. Easier to paint before install...since the outer edges will be the only part exposed after the storm door is up. You want to protect it from rot and weather.

I don't remember exactly how thick/wide the frame is on that door...but there should be plenty of meat on the inside of the "L" to be able to screw into the existing BM. IIRC you have to drill the holes for the screws in the frame anyway.
 
  #5  
Old 11-14-11, 08:53 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: us
Posts: 49
Originally Posted by Gunguy45 View Post
Our other full service installers would rip down boards or 2X lumber to the exact size they needed. Nail to the existing BM with finish nails. Easier to paint before install...since the outer edges will be the only part exposed after the storm door is up. You want to protect it from rot and weather.
Gotcha. So be sure to prime/paint before attaching the 'spacer' and make sure to screw the storm door to the existing BM, not the spacer.

Not sure I'm understanding you on the spacer; I'm assuming the ripped down 2X lumber would attach the the front face of the BM? Doesn't it want to rock off the face of that BM profile (please see pic link)?

imgur: the simple image sharer
 
  #6  
Old 11-14-11, 09:59 AM
Gunguy45's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 20,979
The spacer is only attached to the flat part of the BM...which should be to the inside of the opening. If you made your drawing from memory..you may have reversed the profile.

Take a look here...http://www.stormdoors.com/pdf/instal...ss-English.pdf

(this is for the top rain cap, but its the best view)

Page 8, step 10...see the magnified view in the circle? The spacer would go under the part labeled "screw track"...on the flat part of the BM.

Ahh...this might help...


The spacer would go on the flat part that is 1" wide.

You could take a good straight 2x4 rip off a piece that's 3/8" x 1 1/2" x 8' Then rip it again to 1". Or just make an initial cut to bring the thickness of the 2X4 to 1" (doesn't have to go all the way through) then make 3 passes for pieces 3/8" thick by 8' long.

I believe you should find something in the molding aisle that would work.
 
  #7  
Old 11-14-11, 10:32 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: us
Posts: 49
Ahhhh yes, I see how the spacer would work now. Yes I was doing the sketch from memory and did indeed get it backwards. Thanks a lot! I've got it now. I'll measure the sill and make sure there is still room for the sweep if the door comes sets-out another 3/8".
 
  #8  
Old 11-14-11, 10:57 AM
Gunguy45's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 20,979
Measure everything carefully...

Sometime the sill is wide enough, but you can sometimes run out of adjustment on the door sweep because the sill slope.

You can solve that if necessary by slightly dropping the door in the opening and lowering the rain cap. (Yes, shims will probably be needed on the inside of the BM at the top in that case.) Or drill some new holes in the sweep to get that extra 1/4".

Oh...if you go to a Big Box store...the guys there may be able to tell you what their installers use. Of course, thats if he's a good Apron Wearer....I was and I asked our installers a lot of questions and even had them show me how they did things in odd situations.

I'll say it again...read the instructions carefully and measure twice, cut once. They will replace mis-cut parts, but it will take a week to get the parts. They won't replace a door because you mis-drilled a hole and it's ugly.

Not sure if it's in the instructions..but you want to cut the Z-bar (frame of the storm door) at an angle to match the sill. Looks a lot better than a square cut.
 
  #9  
Old 11-14-11, 11:40 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: us
Posts: 49
Great tips! Sounds like you really know your way around this stuff. thanks again!
 
  #10  
Old 07-11-12, 04:40 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: us
Posts: 49
Sill doesn't look wide enough

I've finally got around to getting this thing installed but after doing some fitting and measuring, it looks like the sill doesn't extend outside far enough for the sweep to seal if I add much of a shim to the BM (Pics here: Photo Album - Imgur )

I've got 1" of sill on the entry door where the storm door will sit. Shimming the storm door out is going decrease that and I don't think the sweep will have much to seal on.

I did some googling for "sill extender" but not sure what you would call it. What's a common way to fix this?

Thanks!
 
  #11  
Old 07-11-12, 05:39 AM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 20,526
The Mastercraft door is Menards brand, so you will need to go there to order a sill extender. This assumes that your sill does indeed have the notch in front to accept sill extenders. They have at least 3 sizes.

To extend the door out farther, you usually want to remove the brickmould and add not only your sill extension, but also a jamb extension to both the door jamb and then you'd add something of similar thickness to the sheathing (not included). Ensure the perimeter of the door is shimmed sufficiently, and perhaps foam it in place to prevent it from moving. Use a 78" level to ensure your door jamb and the jamb extension are both straight, and not bowed. Then put the brickmould back on. But it sounds like you've already got that part handled, and just need the sill extender.

Search Results for "sill extender" at Menards
 
  #12  
Old 07-11-12, 09:07 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: us
Posts: 49
Aha.. that's what that notch is for on the front of the sill. I was wondering what that was when I installed the entry door.

I didn't think about pulling the BM off to hide the shim-work for the storm door but I like that idea. I have the door mounted with screws through the frame, and not the BM, so all I should have to do is cut the caulk around the BM and gently pry it off (assuming it was nailed together from the face). Guess I'll have to when I put on the sill extension anyway? I can't tell from the Menards pics how the extension fits on but once I get it in hand, it should make more sense.

Thanks!
 
  #13  
Old 07-11-12, 09:40 AM
Gunguy45's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 20,979
I'm not positive about the ones linked to...but as I remember sill extensions are slid into the groove/notch from the side then lightly crimped in place. Not sure if they can be added after the door is installed?

EDIT...I've always wondered why someone hasn't designed an adjustable storm door sweep that extends backwards towards the main sill.
 
  #14  
Old 07-11-12, 10:25 AM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 20,526
Its easiest to slide them on before the door is installed, but you can also clip them on afterwards. You tip the front up, hook it in the groove, then snap the front down and they will usually click into place. Sometimes you need to give them a whack with a hammer, while holding a scrap of wood in your left hand to soften the blow.

The sill extension is usually put on first... before the extension jambs or brickmould are added.

I like it when the sill extension is full width (40" for a 36" door), so it can extend underneath the brickmould. The extension jambs are then cut to length to sit on top.
 
  #15  
Old 07-24-12, 07:03 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: us
Posts: 49
Well I checked out the sill extension kits at Menards and they have a few different options. Mainly the kit consists of an aluminum sill (extension) and three wooden strips designed to be installed behind the brickmould. Just what Gunguy45 linked to.

There were three or four different "sizes" which, according to the helpful salesperson, somehow depend on the thickness of the wall. I don't quite understand how the wall thickness matters because I just want to space out the front of the brickmould and have enough sill for the gasket to seal. Could someone explain how the thickness relates?

Second thing is, as the storm door sits right now, the sweep on the bottom hangs over the current sill like 3/4". If I buy the kit which spaces out the brickmould 3/4" it comes with a sill extension which adds 3/4", I've added plenty of clearance for the door handle, but the storm door sweep is still going to hang over the edge of the sill. It's just hanging over the extension now. Can I just buy the 3/4" spacer kit and rip those strips it comes with down to 3/8" (or whatever I need for handle clearance on the storm door > entry door) and still have a working sill extension?
 
  #16  
Old 07-24-12, 08:36 AM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 20,526
Can I just buy the 3/4" spacer kit and rip those strips it comes with down to 3/8" (or whatever I need for handle clearance on the storm door > entry door) and still have a working sill extension?
yes. Just be sure the 3/4" extension is enough. I would hate to see you get 3/4" and still see light in front of the door. IMO it's hard to get the extension too long. You can always cut the wood down that they supply with the kit if it is too wide. If you are happy with the way the brickmould is sitting now, then you don't even need to use the wood they supply. Just put the sill nose extension on and throw the rest away.
 
  #17  
Old 07-25-12, 06:28 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: us
Posts: 49
Thanks XSleeper. I was hoping it would be that easy. Yeah, I need to get a final measurement before ordering. I was trying to hold the door myself to check the depths but I think it would work better as a two person job.


PS: Ran across this article yesterday and found it interesting:
"A Nation Thatís Losing Its Toolbox -
Itís all very handy stuff, I guess, a convenient way to be a do-it-yourselfer without being all that good with tools. But at a time when the American factory seems to be a shrinking presence, and when good manufacturing jobs have vanished, perhaps never to return, there is something deeply troubling about this dilution of American craftsmanship."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/22/bu...rit-essay.html
 
  #18  
Old 08-14-12, 08:43 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: us
Posts: 49
Just an update, after getting the storm door handle installed, I was pleasantly surprised to find that it didn't need to rotate much to open the latch. Like 10 degrees or so. That means the handle cleared the deadbolt by a couple of inches and I didn't have to shim the door out! I ended up getting a 3/4" sill extension kit (didn't use the wood shims) and just snapping the aluminum onto the front like Xsleeper suggested. I reinforced it with a piece of 3/4" cedar (primed/painted) underneath and caulked around it with some PL. Once it's cured, some paint should finish it up for good.

Thanks for all the help!
 

Last edited by blah1133; 08-14-12 at 08:45 AM. Reason: wow.. spelling..
  #19  
Old 08-14-12, 01:22 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 20,526
Nice job... glad you got it finished up. Time to sit in the shade with a lemonade and admire your work!
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes