Hello,

I am tryin to fix/replace my extension jams on a window in my bathroom. the house is only about 4 years old but we had some excessive moisture issues and I am now at a good point to remove and replace them.

I should note these are anderson windows with solid oak extension jams.

My question is when I am looking at it i don't see how the extension jams are attached to the windows themselves. there are no nail holes which leads me to belive they are possibly biscuit jointed in? could that be/ if so, how do I remove and replace these without replacing the whole window?

Thanks for the help.

 

I'd sorta say it depends on if they were factory installed or on site installed. Dunno how the factory does it, but I doubt they use biscuits. If onsite they probably have brad nails down through the tongue or maybe up from the bottom. The installer could have also put a bead of caulk or glue in the groove before they nailed the jamb to the framing (if they nailed to the framing).

If you can find a sticker (unlikely since its on the outside of the frame most times) you could call Andersen an ask about the order.

 

The Andersen oak extension jambs are installed with pocket screws that are on the rough opening side of the jambs. You will need to remove the casing, then use a long bit to unscrew the pocket screws.

 

Thanks for the reply. they were installed on site as i did the staining of the windowsjams and decorative pieces. i know where the jams butt up against one another there are some screws. securing them but i try and wiggle the where they butt up agains the pine and it barely budges so maybe glu or something? does this shed some light on removal?

 

Ahh Xsleeper has more recent experience than I do.....

 

They may have screws at the corners... but the pocket screws I am referring to are inside the rough opening, which screw through the sides of the extension jambs at an angle and go into the window. Did you find and remove them? You will likely need a light and a 4 or 6" long bit to get to them. You might also need to cut the drywall back so that you have some space to get to them. If so, use a keyhole saw (or a rotozip) and cut the drywall back to the edges of the rough opening.

The extension jambs are rabbeted and fit into a dado in the window, and yes they could have been glued... but more likely than not, if they were varnished, it is the varnish that is "gluing" them to the window.

Yeah Vic, *IF* the jambs are "Andersen jambs" and not something the carpenter made, the oak extension jambs are a pricy option on those windows. They cost about as much as the window does, as does ANY Andersen accessory.

 

Thank you both for the reply.

i thought about this more last night and in thinkin about it, GunGuy45 I think you are correct in that they came preinstalled and it was only the decorative pieces that were installed on site. so it is possible that they did come factory installed. My apologies.

If pocket holes were used there is only maybe a one inche space between the opening and the jamb. do you think You can get to those pocket hole screws in that amount of space?

maybe the biggest thing though is that inch space was filled with foam and to clean that out to even see them might be difficult. Any thoughts there?

So the reason I am wanting to do this is a couple.
1. We had moisture problems that seem to have been resolved now that we have an air exchaneer and a larger exhuast fan in the bathroom but the 3 years of moisture on the wood has bubbled the varnish up in many spots and really looks bad. also, the bottom jamb the wood itself seems to bubble during the winter months and over the course of these 3 winters, where it has bubbled, the stain has discolored. Can this be fixed with the existing jambs?

2. I would look to do a stool/apron sort of look. is that possible if i reuse these jambs if salvagle?

That do you guys think? i could post a picture too if that might help?

Thanks again for all the assistance.

 

Olson, I have been installing windows for 20 years. I would not give you the advice if I did not think it was correct. The only other possibility is that someone made those jambs and they are not factory accessories, and if that's the case, I can't say how they attached them. The fact that you said there are no nail holes, however makes me almost certain there are pocket screws. You can get them into an opening as tight as 3/8". It's likely that the installer took them out of the package they come in, then he screwed them onto the window, then he put the window in. I have NEVER seen them factory installed.

To clean out the foam you can use a keyhole saw, cutting both sides of the foam, it is very easy to do. Once you cut out most of it, just drag the saw up and down and the teeth will catch most of it and pull it out. A reciprocating saw (sawzall) might be faster if you have one.

Your stain and varnish are probably suffering because the primary window was not insulated (air sealed)and your warm air is leaking out around it, causing condensation on the cold drafty surfaces. I am guessing that when you remove the extension jambs you will find that the primary windows (the rough opening) leaks air and this is where the moisture problem is coming from. When the extension jamb is the only part that is insulated, you have an entire cavity around the windows (that is not insulated) that is cold and drafty. Being in the bathroom only exacerbates the problem.

Yes, you could reuse the jambs, since they should simply unscrew. If you want a "stool" look, the easiest thing to do would be to glue and nail an additional 1x2 onto the front of the bottom jamb that extends 1/2" or so beyond the edges of the casing. When the casing is resintalled, it would sit on top of that 1x2. An additional piece of casing underneath the 1x2 would be your apron.

 

Thanks again for the reply.

Do you think it is possible to fix the bubbles in teh wood with the stain and the varnish as they sit or would i need to remove them even to fix that? My thought would have been to sand the whole deal down where they sit, stain and revarnish.

How do you prevent the ruff opening from leaking so they aren't drafty?

 

IMO it would be best to remove them, strip the varnish, sand them down, and restain and varnish. While the jambs are off, you would insulate the perimeter of the window... If there is a small gap, 1/8" or so, that is too tight for foam. you should caulk a small gap. But if it is large enough to get the tube into, you could use either Great Stuff Window and Door foam, or DAP Latex window and door foam. The Dap is a little easier to work with and clean up, and it doesn't expand too much. You have to be really careful not to overfill the cavity if you use Great Stuff. Once you seal the window and reinstall the prefinished jambs, you could then also foam the jambs to provide another layer of protection against drafty leaks.

If you remove the jambs and notice a lot of water staining in the bottom of the rough opening, it could be that the window is leaking on the outside (when it rains) and you would want to investigate that.

You "probably" could chemically strip the jambs while they are still on the window, but it would probably be a real pain and if you need to do heavy sanding, you would not be able to do as good of a job of sanding in the corners which could result in an uneven stain color. The sanding is probably the most important part if you want your stain to be evenly colored. Water stained oak can often become discolored and it takes a LOT of sanding to get that out, along with some oxalic acid treatments to remove the stain. If there are no stains, and it's just the varnish that's bubbled, then you might be better off stripping, sanding, staining, varnishing in place. Just mask off the window that you don't want to get any chemical on, and mask off the wall to protect the paint job.

 

maybe you have some tips here. they are pocket hole screwed in. I can get and have gotten to the screws on the vertical sides but the bottom, the screws seems rusted as best i can tell and stripped and i cannot get them. the top the gap is maybe a 1/4" at best. what have you done in these situations?

Second, the vertical sides they were pocket holed screwed and glued it seems. how to do you pry this apart?

 

actually it seems all are glue or at least the tongue I am guessing as some i can see the seem spread but it will not sepearte from the window.

 

Well it was unnecessary for the guy to glue them, that's too bad. can't really advise you too much there, since ur the one doing it. If it's glued well it could split the window where you don't want to split the window. If you can't get them off, all this is kind of a mute point.

It will give you a little leverage if you take a screw and drive it into the jamb maybe 1" from the end. Drive the screw in until the head is protruding maybe 1/2". This will allow you to hook the claw of a hammer on the screw head and pry outward, possibly popping the jamb off the glue. Place a scrap of wood under the hammer to increase the leverage and prevent denting. But be careful because like I said you don't want to break the tongue or groove on the jamb and window. And make sure all the screws are out before you pry! The screws should all be symetrically placed on the jambs, equidistant from the corners and every so many inches in between.

Pocket screws often have #2 square drive heads in the center in addition to the phillips slots, so you could try that. Holding a 6" long driver in your hand, you can often insert it into the opening and "feel" when you have it set on the screw head. Then use a 1/4" driver in your drill to back it out with your right hand while holding the 6" bit in your left. (or just use a long screwdriver if doing it by hand)

I wouldn't worry about the 1/4" clearance on top if you can't get the easier ones off anyway. 1/4" is a little tight but you might be able to do it with the right screwdriver. Otherwise use a jigsaw or sawzall to open up that gap slightly. The casing will cover it all anyway.

 

xsleeper, thansk for all of your help.

I got them off. I pryed as you suggested and fortunately they did pop off. The jamb at the bottom was a different sotry though with the rusty screws. I ended up cutting arund the screws finally exposin them to be able to take a plyer at them and unscrew them that way so they are off.

Once i got them off noticed that it seemed as though the ruff opening on the one side maybe had gotten damp at one point as it is grayed much more so then the rest. There were some small black dots where it could have been some insect residue or black mold not sure so ran some bleach solution over it just in case.

The opening around you suggested earlier was never sealed so i am going to run some caulking around there to seal it. There is one spot where it is just over a half inch so will will with foam.

I have another question. When I put the new jambs on is it best to use pocket screws once again or is it OK to shim?

thanks again for all the help again xsleeper

 

Either way is probably okay. Pocket screws are better because they actually hold the window and jamb together so that no gaps ever open up. Glad ur making some progress.