Modify bay window install?


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Old 10-17-12, 06:45 PM
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Modify bay window install?

Well, I finally started "adding value" to a long-term kitchen remodel and already the wife is up. Turns out we miscommunicated over how a bay window would end up being installed at our sink area. We both originally wanted the counter to extend into the bay area but, due to several reasons (and as I thought I had adequately explained and she had agreed to) I ordered the window a bit shorter so that the bay floor would sit above the counter by 3" (so there would be a continuous backsplash). I'd really like to try and make it all level again but only know of two ways we could do that:

1. Drop the window down by about 3". I really don't want to do that, the top would be too low.
2. Make a short "perimeter wall" along the bottom of the window to leave the window at it's current height.

I searched online and can't find any pictures of option #2. It would require the bottom floor of the bay window (3/4" birch veneer plywood) to be removed which is screwed into the bottom or cut a scallop in this and then build the short wall underneath.

Hopefully I've explained this correctly so that someone can tell me whether it's feasible or not. It's a Jeld Wen "builder grade" vinyl window that is unitized (not three separate windows).

Thanks,
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Old 10-18-12, 05:31 AM
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I'm a painter not a carpenter so I won't try to address if/how to lower the window but I would question the advisability of having it level with the rest of the countertop. Being raised with a backsplash would make it easier to keep clean IMO. It is a long stretch to the windows reaching past the sink.
 
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Old 10-18-12, 07:07 AM
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Actually, I tend to agree but my wife wants it "wide open" and it is a wide and reasonably deep window so it would take a huge spill to get water and crud way back.

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Old 10-18-12, 07:29 AM
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You don't say what kind of countertop material you are using or if it will have a joint where it juts out into the bay but don't be surprised if the sill of the bay window moves or settles independently of the rest of the counter.
 
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Old 10-18-12, 09:58 AM
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I would go with the idea of NOT lowering the window and having the continuous back splash. I have a friend that has her kitchen sink installed in a corner and there are windows in this corner. I'm fairly tall, just under six feet and I cannot reach the latch for the opening window unless I were to stand on a step-stool so I know that Jane, at 5'4'' couldn't possibly reach the latch. When the sink splashes it is very easy to get water all the way to the window and wiping it up is extremely difficult.
 
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Old 10-18-12, 10:51 AM
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Yeah I remember the whole discussion about raising the bow up to allow for a backsplash. Too bad the wife doesn't recall the same... maybe you need to set her up with an account here so she can stay up to speed? LOL

Of the 2 options you presented, either is doable. If you say that the top will be too low, I believe you. So that brings us to option 2. The success of that depends a lot on your carpentry skills. I assume the window isn't installed yet, which is good. You will want to do all this before it's installed, either by setting the window upside down or laying it down flat on some sawhorses and 2x4's.

I can't give you real good directions, but in general, here's what I think you need to do.

Right now the seat probably extends out to the outer face of the window where it's probably capped by some sort of L-shaped trim. The L-shaped trim may need to come off or it may not so don't tear it off just yet.

The cables may need to get run down to the bottom of the new seat, or they may not. Some adjust from the bottom- if thats the kind you have then your cables will need to run to the new bottom of the seat- you would need to remove them until the new seat is on, then run them back up through the dividers. If your cables adjust from the top with turnbuckles, leave the cables in place.

Rather than completely removing and reusing the seat, I would probably make a new one by sitting the window on a new piece of plywood and trace around it. Then I'd probably set the window upside down so that you can transfer a line onto the bottom of the seat to represent where the inside edge of the window is. Then I'd set the skillsaw to cut 3/4" deep, and cut the seat off on that line. This will leave a portion of the original seat attached to the window just like it was at the factory. They glue the snot out of that and I think you want to leave it intact. This will not only preserve that seal, but it will give you some wood to glue and screw the next layer of wood onto. AND it allows you to leave the cables in place.

On top of that, you'd basically lay a layer of 1x4 (ripped to the right width), glued and screwed to the remaining portion of the old seat that you cut off. Try and make sure that any fasteners you use to attach this 1x4 are only 1 1/4" long. You don't want them to pierce the 3/4 plywood and poke a new hole in the window. This would cause an internal leak in the bottom of the vinyl windows.

Once that first 1x4 is on, you'd want to add a 2x4. Then you'd add the new seat. And then if you took the cables out, they will have to be run through again. Now the face will need to be capped with something. Bending a cap out of aluminum trim coil is best. If you can't do that then you would need to cover it with trim, like AZEK. Problem with that is that the Azek will stick out 3/4" too far, creating a ledge. So if you are going to need to trim the front with 3/4" material like AZEK, then we would need to add a step to the above, back where you set the skilsaw 3/4 deep and cut the old seat.

For clarity, let's say that after you cut the old seat off, you are left with 3 1/4" of old seat all the way around the bottom of the windows. You would want to cut 3/4" - 7/8" off the FRONT edge of the seat (where that L-shaped cap might be) and remove it. This would leave you with about 2 1/2" of plywood on the bottom. Your 1x4 that you add on would then be ripped down to 2 1/2" wide... and when you install it you would keep it flush to the inside of the bay. Same with the next layer of 2x4. The new seat would also need 3/4" off the front so that the new face of the exterior is 3/4" inset from the original. This will allow you to install a 1x4 of Azek trim around the front of the bay, and it won't protrude and be a ledge that would catch water.

Now as for the inside, all your framing will line up with the interior level of the windows. Since we can't see your window, I'm not sure how the inside of the windows are currently trimmed out (if at all) but you will need to apply a 1x4 around the base of the windows to cover 1) the edge of the old seat which is 3/4" thick... 2) the 1x4... 3) the 2x4 which adds up to 3" of added height. You could use baseboard and baseshoe for this or whatever you think looks best. Several layers of built up trim sometimes look better than one big blocky piece. So maybe you'd put a 2 1/2" rip of wood down, with a cove, quarter round or base shoe on top, and then a cove quarter round or base shoe around the bottom.

This also assumes that your window has no side jamb yet, as lengthening 3" would make the side jambs too short.
 
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Old 10-18-12, 06:22 PM
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Thanks Xsleeper, I pretty much understand your described method. The window is installed but just enough to hold it in place and it doesn't use a cable system (just supported from the bottom). It gives me enough info to decide which way to go.

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Old 10-20-12, 08:26 PM
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Bay windows that do not have cables either need to have a 3 sided gusset that is framed and sheathed, or structural corbels to provide support for the cantilevered weight of the windows. I hope that when you say it is "supported from the bottom" that you are aware of that.
 
 

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