Commercial Door Sagging

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  #1  
Old 01-22-13, 01:23 PM
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Commercial Door Sagging

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me. I have searched the fourm but haven't found anything that works yet.

I have a metal door in a metal frame on my business that is sagging to the point it won't even shut any more, or open very far because it rubs on the ground.

I can't sand off the bottom because it is a metal frame, and I don't want to get to nasty because it's all glass besides the frame and I don't know how strong the glass is.

I checked all the screws connecting the door to the frame and they seem really tight. I also lifted up on the door as hard as I could and couldn't feel any give at all.

I can't move the hinges around because it appears to be one long hing that runs the entire length of the door.

I know the top and bottom of the frame are still the same amount apart (3'), but I dont have a square with me so I don't know if the frame is leaning?

It started sagging about 5 days ago, and what ever is moving appears to be changing pretty fast...

Again, any help would be apprecaited since this is the main entry way to my business.
 
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  #2  
Old 01-22-13, 03:46 PM
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Welcome to the forums! Have you tried loosening the hinge side screw at the top and tightening the latch side screw. They are there for adjustment of this type. You will tend to rack the entire frame back toward the hinge side in this manner. Let us know if it wasn't clear or if you still have problems with it. Basically, the door fit when it came from the factory, so you shouldn't have to do any sanding, cutting, etc. to get it back in the same position.
 
  #3  
Old 01-22-13, 04:16 PM
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I would say that you probably have concrete that is heaving (as it often does in the wintertime) on the latch side of the door.

I don't know how your door is attached to the ground... but one adjustment you could try is to see if you can fit a prybar underneath the hinge side leg of the storefront jamb and lift it. There may be some screws at the bottom of the jamb that you will need to remove first.

Its hard for us to tell what is out of level without being there to check it with a reliable level. It would be interesting to know if the head of the jamb is level... if the threshold is still level... or if the hinge side jamb is perfectly plumb.

My bet is frost heave.

However you may find that the pivot point of the door (bottom hinge side corner) can be shimmed up and raised- at least temporarily if nothing else- to help alleviate this problem if it's temporary frost heave.
 
  #4  
Old 01-24-13, 08:44 AM
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Helo Xsleeper,

as for the hinge on the door in question, what hes talking about (full legth of the door) is what sounds to me like the geared continus hinge, (such ast that offered by hagar-roton)


shimming up the bottom hinge, this only works in the offset hinges, such as the standard storefronts that usually have the closer on the top jamb or concealed in the floor (such as the Rixson #27)

as for fixing this, since there's no level available, Chrisk41 can use a tape measure and measure diagonally from corner to opposite corner the doorframe and compare the first number with second number when measuring in opposite direction corner to corner

chrisk41, the last 5 days, extreme temperature change to the area?? this also can mean something wrong with the masonary of the building around the glass/aluminum storefront as well, any bad storms with wind or damage happen recenly as well??


sorry xsleeper for hijacking your advice here on the commercial door,


-Jess the door closer doctor
 
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Old 01-24-13, 03:08 PM
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No problem Jess, I didn't see the part about the one long continuous hinge. Occasionally I will answer before I've completely read the whole thing. LOL This was one of those times. I'm still guessing the problem is related to frost.
 
  #6  
Old 01-24-13, 04:39 PM
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you need a level. is the hinge through bolted on the door?
 
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Old 01-24-13, 04:52 PM
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Sorry for taking so long to respond, and thanks for all of the input!

I was originally thinking frost, but the door can only swing about 1í now, and canít make it up over the plate at the bottom to close. Could frost really move concrete that far that fast? The weather has been sub zero, but it has stayed there for almost a month now. There hasnít been much wind or anything else in the last month, the last time we had a lot of wind was during the summer.

As far as the cross measurements go, one is about ľĒ longer than the other, but part of that could be wear from the door rubbing pretty hard over the last week. At the top of the door on the hinge side you can see a little more clearance between the door and the frame than at the bottom.

I can't help but think there must be a way to readjust the door so it doesnít catch, but I am not really seeing any room for adjustment in this type of door.. Am I overlooking something simple?

Thanks again for the help, you guys are lifesavers.
 
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Old 01-24-13, 05:47 PM
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Yes, frost can heave concrete that much, that fast. It has nothing to do with wind. I would agree with Xsleeper that it is frost heave.

Your best option is to grind down the concrete. Cutting or adjusting the door will only wreck how the door is when it is closed, which I am guessing is just fine. Next spring you will need to re-do the sidewalk.
 
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Old 01-24-13, 06:03 PM
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I would just grind the concrete, but the door won't shut anymore either. The door just catches on the metal plate on the bottom. I could cut that part out, but then I will have a huge gap at the bottom of the door if things start to settle.
 
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Old 01-24-13, 08:16 PM
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The metal plate is usually installed last... but since we can't see your door unless you upload some pictures, most of us are only guessing. Jess seems to be familiar with this style of door so maybe he'll have some input.

I would check and see if the threshold is removable, and then REMOVE IT! Then the door will at least be able to shut. Usually the threshold is a metal plate that is screwed down / caulked down to the concrete.
 
  #11  
Old 01-25-13, 03:52 AM
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Before trying some of the suggestions, which could be what the problem is, try this simple fix assuming that the door is rubbing on the bottom on the lock side. An aluminum commercial door is held square by shims when the glass is installed. There is one adustment you can try as long as the glass was properly installed. Look in at the top rail of the lock side of the door and you should see a screw. By tightening the screw, the door will raise on the lock side.
 
  #12  
Old 01-26-13, 05:53 AM
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Hello XSleeper and johnam, and ChrisK41,

as XSleeper said, pictures can help out alot with a door problem and they do speak a 1000 words sometimes better then a really detailed description can say,


Xsleeper: I am guilty on this as well at times, especially if in a rush or feeling stress or not in a good mood, which is not often, but were all human, it happens,

but i do understand what your saying as that many commercial storefront doors have the offset pivots and may or may not have a concealed closer (in floor or top jamb) and show the knuckles on pull side, if this door was one that had a concealed closer, it could be both concrete heave and closer misaligned, as with most of the concealed closers, if their arm screws are loose or the closer body is not level (in a floor closer install) it can cause the door to rub on the threshold or sag.

I will settle on it being concrete heave on this as well since this door does NOT have a concealed closer/offset pivots, as with anything temperature can effect it, concrete, aluminum just as wood is effected in a regular household residential door.

in winter too, you may also want to adjust the closer to close alittle faster, as oil gets thicker due to temperature drop, it will slow the door down alittle, you could speed up the sweep and latch valves on the closer if it is slower too, many newer closers this may not be necessary as it has all weather fluid in it and will not thicken with temperature change.

as for being familiar with the doors, I never really get much hand-on time with them, I get lots of questions about them though, in forums and in emails or blogs. last time I was hands-on with a commercial door and frame was in technical school (the school's doors) mostly anymore it's the door closers I am receiving questions about, and it's mostly the older closers (those older traditionals from the 50's) but I still get questions on modern closers, this also includes the concealed in header jamb (OHC) as well as floor mounted closers, such as those made by dor-o-matic and Rixson

johnam and ChrisK41, if you run into any closer problems, let me know, as I am an expert in closers and most likely will know what to do for the problems they have.


-Jess the door closer doctor
 
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