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Installing "regular" door on 5/8" drywall


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01-05-14, 02:21 PM   #1  
Installing "regular" door on 5/8" drywall

Hi,

The following could be misconstrued as venting, if so, be it...

Hired the guy to do my bathroom, licensed/bonded/goldplated - whatever. I am newbie, not the name but life journey I do not even consider myself as an avid DIYer, just barely a DIYer. But.... I do see and understand when things are not done right.
Bought new 6 panel door from HD. It is "standard 4 1/2" wide at the jamb measurement. I have been told by this guy that it's better to go 5/8" green board throughout the bathroom becasue of the moisture and yada yada yada. So, I though, great! the guy is trying to be thorough at what he does. Come back home one day, the door is installed using 18! (yes I counted) long screws, visibly bowed, does not align with the drywall on either side, does not close on it's own and catches on the top corner. So I ask, what's up with that. He goes into lengthy explanation how the doors are not made right these days, have pressed wood in them so he couldn't use the nail gun to install it (???) and he will sand the door to close properly. I told him, no I want it to be hung correctly and close or to be replaced with the "right" door if this one is defective. Next day I come in, the door is off the hinges and he promises that now.... the jamb is plumb and it's just hunky-dory. He leaves, I go check (I know anal me) can i say that??? And the jamb is not plumb, still visibly (although a little less) bowed and not aligned with drywall.
Now to the real question
I have taken the jamb out and want to install the door myself,
a. Because we are running out of time - project delays...
b. I don't trust him with the door install

Should I align the jamb with the plane of the drywall on the inside of the bathroom or outside in the hallway, or it really does not matter as long it's plumb?
When I do install the jamb, I will probably have about 1/4" gap between the jamb and the drywall. How can I address that without trying to shave or adjust drywall to the jamb?

Thanks a lot for reading and for any possible advise you can give me.

 
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01-05-14, 03:08 PM   #2  
Was your door with 4 9/16" jamb onsite, or purchased after the walls were up? Greenboard is only marginally more water restive than regular sheetrock. Did he have anything to do with ordering the door? He knew a 4 9/16" jamb won't fit around an almost 4 3/4" wall and ineptly tried to put 10 lbs of butt in a 5 lb pair of pants. Its wrong and he needs to man up and do it right.

 
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01-05-14, 03:09 PM   #3  
#1, 5/8 drywall is never used on walls.
I've never even seen 5/8 green board, only 1/2".
#2 No screws should be needed to hang a prehung interior door.
Is this an old house? If so I'd be checking to see how far the floor is off. If the floors off the whole jamb will be off if it's not accounted for.
If some how he did use 5/8 on the walls, I would have used a split jam door to account for the different thickness. Now your stuck with having to use a jamb extension.

I'd yank the whole thing out and start over.
Start by laying a 4' level across the opening. Lift the level until it's level and measure from the floor to the bottom of the level. That's how much needs to come off the bottom of the jamb.
Next check how far off the rough framing is on the hinge side of the door.
I use a 6' level when checking the jambs. It not only checks plumb but tells me if the 2X needs to be shimmed if it's bowed. If the hinge side of the jamb is perfect it makes the whole job easier.
Next check the rough opening size. There's no need for it to be any bigger 2" of the door size.
To big, then add some plywood or OSB. You do not want to have to be dealing with trying to stack 4 or 5 shims.

 
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01-05-14, 03:15 PM   #4  
Hanging doors is considered "finish work" and if your guy can't hang a door I would be very suspect of any other "fine work" that he has yet to accomplish. Sad to say.

Some guys are excellent framers but terrible finish carpenters. Some finish carpenters don't know a thing about tile. And so on. Finding one individual that is good at ALL aspects of a job is pretty difficult. So it's not surprising to hear you are having some difficulties.

First off, to install a door perfectly, you need a 78" level. You can do it with a 48" level but it sure won't be as accurate. With a 78" level you install the jamb not only perfectly plumb, but also perfectly straight (not bowed at ALL- or twisted anywhere!) You check the floor to make sure it's level. If it isn't you can either cut one leg of the jamb shorter, or put a shim under one leg of the jamb so that when you set the door into the opening, the head of the door will be level. When you set the door in the opening, you always plumb and set the hinge side of the jamb first. You always use shims to center the jamb within the rough opening. 2 cedar shims are stacked together in opposite directions. By sliding these shims back and forth on one another, you can adjust the shim until it is just the right thickness... then you fasten the door jamb through the shims. Usually a pair of finish nails through the jamb and shims works best. If the framing is twisted, you have to compensate for that before you nail it by adding additional shims. If you don't shim a door correctly, it will twist the jamb and cause problems with the way the door operates. There will normally be at least 4 or 5 sets of shims along each side of the door to keep it straight. You always shim behind each hinge and put one 3" screw through the hinge into the stud to prevent the door from ever sagging. Finish nails (15 or 16 gauge x 2 1/2" long) are almost always sufficient to hang an interior door (unless it is some extraordinarily heavy door like a divided lite glass door or something).

Assuming the walls are perfectly plumb and the opening is not racked, you would want to install the door so that the hinge and latch side is flush with the drywall on the interior side of the bathroom. Since it will not be flush with the drywall on the opposite side, you will need to add a strip of wood onto that side of the jamb before the casing is installed. Screen moulding is 1/4 x 3/4 and is usually sold in stores. It works well for this purpose.

Hope this helps.

 
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01-05-14, 03:48 PM   #5  
Thank you All!

Ok, here it goes:



"Was your door with 4 9/16" jamb onsite, or purchased after the walls were up?
Did he have anything to do with ordering the door?"


It was purchased as the walls were going up and his involvement was - he told me to order the door and he went to pick it up.

I was really mad about an hour ago, calming down now... But the jamb is out and I want to do it right. Too bad he hides his tools from me, taking them back every time he leaves, so I only have a 4ft level of my own.
I don't know if you are gona laugh or not, but the whole taking out the jamb thing started becasue I wanted to undercut the jamb myself. He is installing the floor tile and started telling me that the best way to install is cutting around the jamb becasue it looks better.... So i decided, no i'll cut the jamb and will prove that it's doable and it looks better than grouting around it. Then i noticed how much the jamb was off compare to the drywall.
He also installed the first row of the shower tile, I just looked - about 3/4" thinset behind the tile. He was the one that installed the Hardibacker so wasn't he the one to adjust the level of the wall before he had to pile up so much of thinset.
Sorry, we are out of the door "realm" - I am still frustrated that's all.
I just paid the guy about 3 grand, but still ready to fire his behind.

 
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01-05-14, 03:55 PM   #6  
That would have been it for me if I saw him cutting around the jamb.
Got some more pictures?
Where did he start the tile in relationship to the door opening?
No marble or other transition strip?

 
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01-05-14, 04:20 PM   #7  
He started tiling about halfway into the bathroom, but thankfully stopped before hitting the jamb. There will be a transition piece becasue in the hallway will be laminate flooring.
I hate to do it becasue he seems to be actually a nice guy with some family issues, but he drives me nuts with his work and lies.
Like he "forgot" to put the paper behind the hardibacker and told me he did it until I confronted him that it's obviously missing. aaaaaaaa

<a href="http://s64.photobucket.com/user/nmikmik/media/IMG_20140105_132948.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h200/nmikmik/IMG_20140105_132948.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_20140105_132948.jpg"/></a>

IMG_20140105_131105.jpg Photo by nmikmik | Photobucket

 
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01-05-14, 04:34 PM   #8  
That doesn't bode well for any part of the project.

 
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01-05-14, 04:41 PM   #9  
Did you try and post two pictures? Only one works.
What paper behind the Hardibacker?
There's nothing needed behind it.

 
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01-05-14, 04:49 PM   #10  
I'm assuming he meant tarpaper (old school) or some sort of moisture barrier. Yes, this is absolutely needed between cement board and studs unless some other waterproofing is done.

I'd have to suggest cutting your losses and showing this guy the road. I'm no Pro...but even I know you've told us about 5 things he's doing wrong.


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01-05-14, 05:10 PM   #11  
Was it first or the second picture that didn't work?

I can take and post more, but I think that Gunguy45 pretty much nailed it. If the guy (the other guy) hasn't screwed it up completely yet, he will later with the vanity or the toilet or whatever..
My wife is saying I have too high of the standards. I beg to differ

Sorry, the door question blew up into long rant, but I am paying the guy money, not chickens or something...

From what I been told before, there must be either a vapor barrier behind the Hardi or RedGard or similar in front to prevent moisture seeping into studs. I am too old school to let this stuff slide, plus I know if I will and sell the house later, someone will sue my sorry behind when problems surface.

 
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01-05-14, 05:23 PM   #12  
Sifting through the extraneous code I believe this is the other picture:

Name:  IMG_20140105_132948.jpg
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01-05-14, 05:25 PM   #13  
Yep,
that's the picture of thinset piled up behind the tile
Thanks!

 
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01-05-14, 05:27 PM   #14  
Here is how to add pictures. http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...-pictures.html

 
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01-05-14, 06:25 PM   #15  
I tried using a URL, but the system didn't like the size of it. :NO NO NO:

 
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01-05-14, 06:49 PM   #16  
btw,
I am the bad guy now and been called the bad guy's names, because I want to fire the "master".
My standards are too high, the other contractor could be just as bad or worst.
Can you win - nope

 
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01-06-14, 06:23 AM   #17  
What exactly is the pix Posternine decoded? Closeups don't help. I can't tell what I am looking at.
This is NOT a contractor's market, believe me. Let them call you what they want. You pay for a good job and should receive it for the money.

NOW, on the other side...if you hired the cheapest contractor you could find, beat him up on his estimate, THEN try to micromanage the job, it could get you nailed inside a closet one afternoon when they leave JK

 
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01-06-14, 06:38 AM   #18  
Larry... its a pic of where the guy built up 3/4" of thinset behind the wall tile to compensate for what I assume is an out of square corner.

He also installed the first row of the shower tile, I just looked - about 3/4" thinset behind the tile. He was the one that installed the Hardibacker so wasn't he the one to adjust the level of the wall before he had to pile up so much of thinset.
While we may be down on the guy for this... it is probably better that he noticed and is trying to correct it, rather than not, and maybe having that 3/4" show up as a taper in FRONT of the wall tile, or at a corner. But it sure would have been easier to shim the wall framing out before the Hardibacker went on. I would think that with that much thinset behind the tile, it's going to be pretty hard to get all of the tile perfectly smooth.

 
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01-06-14, 07:00 AM   #19  
I tried using a URL, but the system didn't like the size of it
Both physical size and file size can be reduced using a free image viewer such as IRFan view but there is a simpler way.

Save at Photobucket. Click the gear on your preview thumb. Choose get links then copy and paste the image link in your post. See screen shot below:

Name:  SC8.jpg
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01-06-14, 07:05 AM   #20  
Well,

Kind of works both ways Larry,

I did not go with the cheapest, nor obviously with most expensive. I went by recommendation of the neighbor.
It is in fact the contractors market here, at least now... half of them would not even get back to me with the estimate, that of course if they came for the estimate. I did end up micromanaging the project becasue i suspect i wouldn't have, he would screw up even more.
As far as 3/4" thinset "adjustment", i suspect half of it the result of him using a 5/8" drywall on the adjacent wall. To be fair, he did ask me if I want 1/2" or 5/8", and I did say 5/8" (he said i will be a stronger wall) , but he never warned me of the possible consequences & like I mentioned, I am just barely a DIYer.
I was thinking, maybe to make him do a layer of a thinset first to compensate for that 3/4", then have him install the tile over that?

 
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01-06-14, 07:29 AM   #21  
I was thinking, maybe to make him do a layer of a thinset first
Thinset is not formulated for 3/4" thick. For that you need a different formulation and a an old time pro. Thick-Set/Thick-Bed - The Tile Council of North America

 
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01-06-14, 08:06 AM   #22  
Gotcha. If I were the contractor, i would have sent the door back or built my own jamb extensions, but NEVER would have forced a door to fit where it wasn't welcome. Difference between framing and trim carpenters. After seeing what we have seen thusfar you were probably right in picking up the dangling reins. Good for you. Sticks and stones.....

 
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01-06-14, 08:09 AM   #23  
Thanks!
Got to deal what I have, I guess

 
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