Window - inside stop question

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Old 07-04-14, 06:28 PM
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Window - inside stop question

Hi all - first time poster here. I've learned so much on this website and thank you all. Here's my specific question:

I'm in the process of removing all of my old wooden double-hung windows (and rotting sills/brick-molding) and replacing with vinyl windows. I've seen countless videos and posts where the inside stop is a small decorative piece that is nailed to in interior trim piece; remove the inside stops and the bottom sash comes out.

My window appears to be a little different - it was clear that my inside stops were not nailed on top of the trim piece. I pulled apart my garage window to see what was going on, and the stops are stapled onto the window frame behind it. They are also much beefier, measuring about 1/2" x 1".

Does this look right to you all? Can I remove these stops safely (without further damaging the window frame behind it) in order to install the new vinyl's? I imagine I would then have to re-trim the window and add new inside stops.

See attached pictures for more info. Thanks for your help!
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  #2  
Old 07-04-14, 08:46 PM
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You've diagnosed it pretty well. Yes, you can remove those stops... that is how you'd do it. Just be very careful removing casing and stops so as not to break anything... and pull all nails thru the back side of the trim, not hammer back out the front.
 
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Old 07-04-14, 09:04 PM
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Thanks XSleeper for the quick response!

So just to confirm, this is what I'll plan to do:
1. Carefully remove the stops and leave the rest of the casing (that the stops are currently stapled to, which are hidden in the picture) in place.
2. Remove the existing sashes, sash guides, parting beads, etc. and dispose of them.
3. Pop in the new vinyl window unit and screw it in.
4. Re-staple/nail the stops back into the casing, and put the trim back on.

Does this all sound correct?


Also, I'm considering putting in an interior stool and apron, since I already have to rip out all of the trim. If so I think I would discard the existing inside stop pieces, and the new stool and trim pieces would extend an extra ~1/2" to butt up against the existing wooden window casing. Then I'd add new inside stops - a smaller type like a quarter round - and re-trim with an apron etc. Does this plan make sense?

Thanks again for your help!
 
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Old 07-04-14, 09:48 PM
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Sounds okay except I'm unsure of how in #1 you can leave any casing on.... seems like you have to remove ALL the casing then the jamb extension... just to get to the stapled stop. but maybe I'm missing something i can't see.
 
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Old 07-04-14, 09:57 PM
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My apologies - I think I'm using my terminology all wrong (typical newbie mistake).

Yes, I had to remove all of the casing and jamb extensions to get to the stapled stop. What I meant to say in #1 was that I'll leave alone the piece of wood that the stop is stapled to (whatever it's called), and the new vinyl window will screw into it.

Thanks again for your help. Are other windows built this way? I was really looking forward to removing a decorative-type inside stop, and not expecting to have to remove the casing and jamb extensions on this DIY project.
 
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Old 07-05-14, 06:41 AM
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Yeah that's the jamb. Windows with counterweights, pulleys and ropes usually have the removable stop... other more modern windows (1960s/70s) are a lot like yours.
 
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Old 07-05-14, 08:30 PM
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Replacement windows installed from the outside; plus Azek trim?

OK so I worked on this (and some other windows) today, and the plot thickens. My original plan was to clad the exterior trim (brick molding and outside stop), and pop in the new vinyl windows from the inside. As I started probing the wood I found that many of my brick molding and outside stops were rotten and will need to be replaced first.

Given this predicament, and the issues previously discussed (the need to pull off the interior casing and jamb extensions), would it make sense to just pop in the window from the OUTSIDE since I've got to replace the outside stops and brick molding anyway? The advantage would be that I don't have to disturb the interior trim.

Additionally, since I've got to pull the brick molding and outside stops, I'm thinking about installing the Azek PVC stuff instead of wood. Has anyone done this before? This would save me from aluminum cladding the wooden trim, and IMO it looks nicer than the wrapped look. I've found the PVC brick molding in the big box stores, but haven't found the PVC exterior stops so I may have to rip some.
 
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Old 07-05-14, 09:38 PM
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Yes it would. But when you go that route, it's usually best to just cut the first 1/2" of those exterior stops off (flush with the surface of the brickmould/jamb) with a sawzall and a sharp 4", 6 TPI wood/nails sawzall blade. (Milwaukee Axe blades are best, as they are impossible to bend). (lock the window sashes while you cut to keep the sawdust outside) Then the old window is removed. After the new window is installed and pushed up tight against the interior stops and insulated, you can then install a new exterior blind stop and some new exterior casing or brickmould.
 
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Old 07-05-14, 09:59 PM
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Awesome, thanks again for your help! I'll give it a whirl and post back after I try it out (after the windows come in).

One last question - any advice on using the PVC/Azek stuff? I plan on using it for both the exterior stops and the brickmolding, and attaching with a 15ga nailer and then caulking.
 
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Old 07-05-14, 10:34 PM
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I use quite a bit of Azek. I rarely use finish nails unless it's a pretty small piece (like the blind stop will be) instead I prefer to use #10 x 2 3/4" composite screws. (T-20 torx) I would also recommend Duofast Trimbonder epoxy (single 200ml? cartridge) as the sealant for the joint between the blind stop and the brickmould. Once you're all done, use the Trimbonder for PVC-PVC joints, you only get one nozzle per tube- or order extra nozzles. It's more like a glue/crack filler to hold those 2 pieces together so they don't expand and contract differently and pop apart. I also wouldn't recommend painting any Azek a dark color, their instructions say not to, gets too hot otherwise and warps. OSI Quad also works well to caulk joints if its not convenient to get the Trimbonder. JB PVC Waterweld works pretty well as a filler to fill in those small holes, but it doesn't sand well, so use it carefully, filling just the hole.

If you cut Azek on the table saw, it's easier to power plane the saw marks off the cut edge than it is to sand them off. But if you sand, a belt sander works best... you just have to clamp the piece to the work table or the belt sander will throw it across the shop.
 
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Old 07-07-14, 11:42 AM
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OK one more question (I really appreciate all of your help by the way).

I looked at the PVC brick molding at the big box stores, and they are all about 1/4" thicker than my current existing rotting wooden ones. If I tear out the existing wood ones and use the PVC ones, I'm afraid that the top horizontal brick mold will not slide under the existing drip edge.

Is it possible to remove (either by pulling or cutting it out) the old drip edge, and then just slide in a new larger one? The house is already vinyl sided and I don't want to remove any siding if at all possible. I'm hoping that the drip edge could then be held in place by gravity, as I'd screw in the top brick mold and the drip edge would be trapped by the J-channels on the left and right.
 
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Old 07-07-14, 04:48 PM
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That's hard to say and you probably won't know until you remove your old brickmould. There are lots of nails through the old drip edge (cuz of the vinyl siding j-channel and finish trim) so replacing it would probably be a real PITA. But you might be able to pry the old one out far enough that it will still work.

If PVC brickmould won't work for you because it's too thick (1 1/4"), you might consider just using the 5/4" PVC boards (full 1" thick), and rip them on a table saw to the same width as the brickmould. (2"). You'd lose the detail of the brickmould profile, though.

And if you go that route, with all that ripping you'll definitely want to power plane your cut edges.
 
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Old 07-10-14, 06:54 PM
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OK so the window finally came in, and tomorrow I'm going to try to put it in as described above. I also picked up the PVC brickmold, sill, and blindstop pieces.

Two last questions that have been on my mind:

1. I've read that many experts are having good results with pocket screws and PVC glue when joining miter cuts and butt joints. I plan on doing this approach on the brickmold pieces at the mitered joints (at the top of the window), on the back side of the pieces so it will be hidden when installed. Would it be a bad idea to use pocket screws where the brickmold meets the PVC sill? (I'd put the pocket screw on the side of the brickmold and patch afterwards.) I've read tons of concerns about expansion/contraction of the PVC material, and I didn't know if screwing them together would result in the piece cracking down the road. I just don't want that joint to separate in the future either.

2. I read somewhere that I should add flashing tape. Any thoughts? And would the tape attach to the existing tar paper/house wrap, and to the newly installed blind stop?
 
 

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