Old wood window glazing question

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Old 06-25-15, 06:43 AM
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Old wood window glazing question

In the process of buying an older (circa 1924) home, and during our inspection noticed the widows will definitely need to be re-glazed and re-painted. I've never done this before, but I've been doing research online, watching videos and seems fairly straightforward.

I'm unsure on the steps I need to complete this. Do I scrape the window, paint with an oil-based primer then lay the bead of glaze in, or should I use linseed oil first (I was going to use DAP 33) lay in the glazing and then paint over everything with an exterior latex?

I'm also unsure if I need to remove each pane and lay down a bed first. I see several people doing it and several skipping it.
 
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Old 06-25-15, 06:58 AM
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Straight foward but extremly labor intensive.
Once done you still have a leaky old single pane window that will have to be redone again in time.
Concidered replacement windows, there going to pay for there self in energy savings.
 
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Old 06-25-15, 07:24 AM
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I apply the glazing. Let it harden to some extent depending on what paint I intend on using. Then paint. The big reason is the drying time for an oil based primer would mean the window may have to go a day or two without anything but the points holding the glass in place and with nothing to seal the panes.

I leave the glass in place and apply the glazing only on the outer surface. Once you get into the job you may realize why. Sometimes glazing comes off easily and other times it's stuck hard. So, applying glazing only to the outer surface is more for future generations that may have to work on the window and saving them the headache of scraping out even more glazing.

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I agree to some extent with JoeCaptain. Old, single pane windows are not efficient. In some homes and historical areas that is the only permitted option. Combine a well maintained window with good fitting storms and you can have a pretty efficient (relative) compromise. I no longer retrofit thermal windows in my rental homes. An old fashioned wood window can be repaired. A modern thermal pane window can only have the entire sash replaced. So a broken piece of glass in an old window may only take $10 in materials so figure $50 with labor versus a $100+ replacement sash in a vinyl window if the manufacturer is still in business. If the maker of the window goes out of business you're really out of luck and either have to replace the entire window or come up with a plan B.
 
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Old 06-25-15, 07:27 AM
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Replacement windows would be great, but unrealistic financially at this point. Do I prime the raw wood first with oil primer or linseed oil before I lay in the DAP33? Just wondering how everyone else tackled window glazing
 
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Old 06-25-15, 07:31 AM
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Thanks, great replies! I'm wondering if linseed oil would improve the durability of the glazing against the raw wood..any thoughts?
 
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Old 06-25-15, 07:44 AM
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You might want to read this recent thread.

http://www.doityourself.com/forum/do...ng-window.html

Just don't forget that oil (linseed oil) and latex paint don't bond well. Which is why the thread mentions oil primer.
 
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Old 06-25-15, 08:35 AM
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I guess my issue is, if I apply the linseed oil to the areas I want to apply the glazing, then apply the glazing, then wait about a week for the skin to harden on it before I paint, is there a good exterior product, either latex or oil, which I can use over the entire frame and glazing, without concern?
 
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Old 06-25-15, 09:10 AM
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It's always a good idea to either apply oil base primer or linseed oil to the bare sash before glazing. Once the glazing has skinned over you can primer and paint it. Usually an oil base primer can be applied earlier than a latex primer. No matter which primer is used, a quality latex house paint is best for the top coat.
 
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Old 06-25-15, 10:47 AM
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Thanks marksr..and to all who replied
 
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Old 06-25-15, 02:05 PM
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I forgot to mention the linseed oil should be cut in half with paint thinner, it will never dry good or soak in much straight out of the can.
 
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Old 06-26-15, 03:28 AM
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Thanks marksr..I was wondering if I could potentially kill two birds with one stone here. The interior of the house will need painting. The former owner was a heavy smoker. Walls yellow, etc..real gross. I did a remodel some years ago with a similar situation and we washed down the walls and put a coat of Kilz on before our interior paint. It worked great. I'm assuming that I will have plenty of use for Kilz on this house. Could I use Kilz Interior/Exterior Oil based primer to paint the entire frame of the window, including where I'll be laying my glazing, let dry, roll in my glazing, let skin, then paint with my latex exterior?

Would be a time saver if I could paint the entire window/frame with the Kilz, then proceed. Plus I'll be using that Kilz everywhere in the house.

I don't work for Kilz if there is a better all-around product, I'd like to hear about it. It worked well for me in the past.
 
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Old 06-26-15, 03:50 AM
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Original Kilz or Kilz2? The latex kilz doesn't do a great job of sealing stains and is reported to have adhesion issues. Oil base Kilz isn't really rated for exterior use but would be ok in a limited capacity.

Do you know what type of paint is currently on the windows? If they are currently painted with latex you shouldn't need to prime the entire window. http://www.doityourself.com/forum/pa...latex-oil.html
 
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Old 06-26-15, 04:47 AM
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Having been in the glass business for about 40 years here is how we did it. Do not attempt to remove the glass or to remove any glazing that doesn't come off with the flick of a putty knife. If you do these things you'll be replacing broken panes. Remove loose glazing, clean the area well and apply the glazing compound. I agree with some of the other suggestions if you're looking for the "ultimate" job. It all depend on how much time you're willing to spend. My method should last until you are ready to replace the windows. Good luck....I hated re-glazing window sash.
 
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Old 06-26-15, 07:44 AM
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Thanks Johnam..I really do not want to make this anymore difficult than it needs to be to get good results..I'll see how enthusiastic I am when I'm ready to start
 
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Old 06-26-15, 07:49 AM
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I would have used the original kilz. I've been reading some spotty reviews for kilz2. The old paint is latex..only a few chips remain, so I'm hoping a few scrapes might dislodge the remainder. The paint has flaked off to the point where all the glazing is gone, and the wood is 90% bare wood..if you could suggest a one shot primer for the whole she-bang, I'm all ears
 
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Old 06-26-15, 08:47 AM
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There really isn't any substitute for the correct primer. I'd use a dedicated exterior wood primer on the windows, something like SWP's A-100 primer. You could get by using oil base kilz on the windows although it might not hold up as long as a 'long' primer that takes longer to dry giving it the ability to suck into the wood deeper.
 
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Old 06-26-15, 09:07 AM
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Great! And I can use that as a one-shot overall primer for the sash and the area I'm going to lay my glazing in right?
 
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Old 06-26-15, 09:13 AM
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Yes, it can be used for both the raw wood and as a primer over the glazing once it skins over.
 
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Old 06-26-15, 09:29 AM
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Thanks again for all your help!
 
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Old 06-26-15, 09:29 AM
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Most homeowners can't help themselves and don't wait long enough between applying the glazing and priming & painting. They just want to get it done so bad that they ignore the reason it is good to wait. So I'm glad that in post #7 you mentioned waiting a week.
 
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Old 06-26-15, 09:34 AM
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I'm doing the painting room by room, so I figure I'll get the window primed, rip out old carpet and paint and then come back to the glazing, set the glaze and go to next room and prime the window and then do the same as the above. I'll come back and lay the exterior paint on all the windows after all the rooms are painted..
 
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Old 06-26-15, 09:37 AM
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Sounds like a plan
I usually prime the glazing the next day BUT most customers want the job done NOW
 
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Old 06-26-15, 09:43 AM
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Not waiting is not as big of a deal with Alkyd oil based paints... as long as its skimmed over enough that it doesn't get in your brush, right?

I've seen where paint peels off the glazing like a snake skin... but that was probably someone who skips the primer and puts a latex paint over oily glazing 60 seconds after they applied it.
 
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Old 06-26-15, 10:26 AM
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ya, you definitely need to wait longer if using a latex primer! I guess anyone that applies latex paint directly to wet glazing better take the money and run ...... fast
 
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Old 06-26-15, 04:52 PM
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Ok, I'm confused..do I..

1. Prime raw sash with A-100, let dry, lay in glaze, let skin, paint over glaze and window again with A-100, let dry, paint with exterior latex

Or

2. Prime raw sash with A-100, let dry, lay in glaze, let skin, paint over glaze and window with exterior latex

I guess I'm confused if I need to prime coat the sash before and apply again to the whole thing after the glaze skins.
 
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Old 06-27-15, 04:04 AM
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While some don't prime the glazing, it is always best to prime the glazing prior to applying paint, go with option #1.
 
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Old 06-27-15, 05:59 PM
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You may want to check out "Sarco" sash glazing putty. It is what many restoration pros use for historic wood window work. The manufacturer actually recommends NOT priming it.

Another trick is to use a sprinkling of "whiting", (calcium carbonate, or chalk) over the freshly installed glazing compound if it appears too oily on the surface. It can also be helpful to dip your glazing knife in paint thinner prior to making the last stroke over the putty as it develops less drag on the surface.

Although others may have had luck with DAP, I have not been particularly impressed with its performance. Definitely do not use their product in the caulking tube.

A well done glazing job is becoming a difficult thing to get done, even from a professional glass shop.
 
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Old 06-28-15, 03:44 AM
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Thanks for the tips Calvert..really appreciate the suggestions. I'll have a look at the Sarco product
 
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Old 06-28-15, 04:27 AM
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I don't believe I've ever used the Sarco glazing but I am partial to SWP's 66 Glazing as it isn't as oily as DAP .... which helps keep my fingers cleaner I also don't care for the caulking tube type glazing. I typically roll the glazing up in my hand, form a long tube [kind of like a short fat pencil] and press it into place and then use a flexible putty knife to dress it off. Many like a glazing knife but I've always found a putty knife to work better. I'll also dip the knife in mineral spirits when/if needed.
 
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Old 06-28-15, 09:07 AM
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Thanks about the mineral spirits tip was gonna ask that next
 
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