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New French Doors Installed By Contractor.. Leaks same day. Is this normal?

New French Doors Installed By Contractor.. Leaks same day. Is this normal?

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  #1  
Old 11-22-15, 08:49 PM
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Question New French Doors Installed By Contractor.. Leaks same day. Is this normal?

Hi -
I am a new home owner and we had sliding doors for our patio doors that came with the home . Never had issues with water coming in until we just had french door installed on our kitchen side heading out to pool deck and living room area that leads out to pool deck as well. 1 is outswing /left handed (living room) and kitchen is outswing right handed

We had a salesman talk to us about french doors and purchased everything from him which I guess he hired a contractor to do the install for us. Installation took about 2 days to complete for them and told us he had to cut the slab which would void our warranty from where they got the french doors

On the same day that the french doors were finally finished/installed/ door knobs everything looked fine with us until it started raining 5 hours after they completed.

Saw at the bottom of the glass little water was dripping down so we had to place a towel so that water wont damage are laminate floors

We called the installer back and told them water was getting inside, he said it must be that the rain washed out the caulk and he will come the next to fix

I got a little worried and checked on forums about leaks from french doors to see if it maybe installers fault or door defect. I took photos from our 2 french doors bottom & top.

I also noticed at the bottom and top of french door I can see small light coming in which small air can get out. Are these doors suppose to be air light tight or is that little light showing normal?

Could someone tell me if this is indeed a bad install job, or pretty normal on new installations or just door defect?

Note. I don't believe this is a pre-hung french door cause the day before it got installed a truck came to deliver these big frames & door slab with door hinges already installed on them

Here's the photos after day 1 when doors were completely installed/finished with doors closed

1st french door (living room headed out to pool deck)
Bottom of french door:





[img=http://s13.postimg.org/z47fdh4cn/idglxk.jpg]










TOP OF FRENCH DOOR





TOP OF FRENCH DOOR OUTSIDE









2nd French Door (Kitchen out to pool deck) - Bottom



Bottom of 2nd French Door Showing From Outside








Endura brand showing on side of door
http://s18.postimg.org/6a5mwx7e1/IMG_4195.jpg
 

Last edited by enycer; 11-22-15 at 09:33 PM.
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  #2  
Old 11-22-15, 09:22 PM
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Welcome to the forums.

Your thread was in moderation as the board saw this as spam with a new member and thirteen pictures in their first post.

I'm not the pro in this forum.... they'll be by.

Note. I don't believe this is a pre-hung french door cause the day before it got installed a truck came to deliver these big frames & door slab with door hinges already installed on them
Pre-hung would come with the hardware attached.
 
  #3  
Old 11-23-15, 02:59 AM
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Welcome to the forums! Great pictures. Can we get one more from standing back with the entire door and frame? We need to know how the door sits in the frame overall. First appearance it seems the frame is not plumb in the opening. If you have a level, determine this. Hold it on the edge of the door frame on the inside both right and left stiles. If you could picture that for us, it would be great, too. Is there covering over these doors, like a porch or overhang within 8' vertically?
 
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Old 11-23-15, 04:05 AM
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Looks like the OP's post hasn't been approved yet
 
  #5  
Old 11-23-15, 07:56 AM
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Just approved it (again). It took a few tries for some reason.
 
  #6  
Old 11-23-15, 08:13 AM
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Thank you for approving the posts & responses!
We received this order paper and at the top of the paper said "Titan Building Supply"

Orlando Door & Trim




Could someone please confirm if this is french doors or Double Doors?


I attached new photos of the entire door frame as requested












 

Last edited by enycer; 11-23-15 at 08:32 AM.
  #7  
Old 11-23-15, 08:27 AM
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I just re-approved your last set of moderated pictures. If that happens again.... wait for us to correct it. Don't repost the thread.
 
  #8  
Old 11-23-15, 11:02 AM
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I've always heard those referred to as double patio doors. A french door has a bunch of little panes of glass or [more common] the same door with a grid that gives the illusion of multiple panes of glass.
 
  #9  
Old 11-23-15, 11:19 AM
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The term French doors used to refer to light duty interior doors with glass, usually with grids (divided lites). It is often used to refer to any double door with full glass.

As far as the light is concerned, they make wedge shaped foam pads to go in the corners of the doors. Not all doors come with them... but you can buy them as an accessory.

Outswinging exterior doors are usually a bad choice in an unprotected area that is prone to rain. And you have no overhang to protect it at all.

One thing you can check is the locks on the passive (non-operating) door. Be sure the passive door is closed completely tight...and that the head and foot slide bolts are engaged. Its possible they didn't drill the holes for the slide bolts in the right place, making the passive door a little loose. The doorknob latch can also be adjusted to make the door latch tightly.
 
  #10  
Old 11-23-15, 11:38 AM
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Thank you again for the french door information. They did offered us to have grids on the glass in beginning when showing us different french doors but we decided to go with the no grid look.. so I'm assuming these are french doors that were sold to us correct? and not just double doors?

I will take a video so you can let me know if they drilled the holes for the slide bolts in the right place. I did notice I can push the door in a bit feeling a little loose
 
  #11  
Old 11-23-15, 12:01 PM
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What is your fixation with the wording? All french doors are "double doors".
 
  #12  
Old 11-23-15, 12:08 PM
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IMO french door indicates the multiple panes or grid and I've painted them that were used as a single door although most are double doors or single door with sidelights. A double door is any pair of doors, with or without glass. I've always referred to those doors as double patio doors .... but as X said, how it's worded isn't that important.
 
  #13  
Old 11-23-15, 03:21 PM
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Sorry about the fixation on the "french door" word. It's just I was told on another forum that what I had were double doors and not french doors. See screenshot and threw me off.



I thought maybe the salesman might have tricked us when we asked for french doors but going by what everyone is saying nevermind.


Here's the video of when I'm pushing in the door, those openings close more. I noticed when i pull back on the door knobs it gives a tighter space and that littl light that comes in shows much less light

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3f7vpk Basically would like to know if the installer did a right job or its the installers mistake for all these small open spaces in corners & the leak when rain comes in

I also noticed on corner of glass has a lil space not tight... might be nothing just thought I point that out

 
  #14  
Old 11-24-15, 03:12 AM
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These doors were just installed this month right? if so, you need to contact them with your concerns.
 
  #15  
Old 11-24-15, 03:43 AM
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Video doesn't load. Did you place a level vertically on the door frame as I stated earlier. I feel the frame is not totally plumb, which would be an installation error.
 
  #16  
Old 11-24-15, 10:32 AM
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@Chandler can you try loading the video up again. Thank you on that info. I hope this is what you were asking for.. I took those photos and placed the level on left stile it looks pretty even), tried on right side as well


New spot I saw with little light coming in on the side door




Showing that left stile of door is leveled (We did see them use levels & measuring tape too)



I believe this is the caulk? Showing rain might of washed it out on the ground? not sure..






Showing height of roof and door with pool screen enclosure



 
  #17  
Old 11-24-15, 10:55 AM
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Adjust the strike plate so that when you close the door it latches tighter.
 
  #18  
Old 11-24-15, 12:06 PM
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I believe this is the caulk? Showing rain might of washed it out on the ground? not sure.
Is it powdery or a little bit sticky? The latter could be caulking, was it caulked just before it rained?
 
  #19  
Old 11-24-15, 12:30 PM
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It was caulked 4-5 hours before it rained.. @markstr installed about 2 days ago

On the ground its more of a powdery/chalk type. I kept rubbing it on the floor and made a sound like chalk rubbing on a blackboard.. didn't feel sticky (saw white powder to on my fingers)

The white substance below the door on concrete strp
http://s16.postimg.org/iso2j42px/IMG_4198.jpg

was more harder to rub on. like if it was glued but didnt feel sticky just hard to remove with finger
 
  #20  
Old 11-24-15, 02:55 PM
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IMO it would have to be a mighty hard rain for it to do that to caulk that has had 4 hrs to set up.
Have you talked to the installer?
 
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Old 11-24-15, 02:56 PM
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Have you considered this to possibly be concrete dust that is washing out? It looks as if the threshold was ground quite a bit and irregularly. What are the plans for this? Paint?
 
  #22  
Old 11-24-15, 04:44 PM
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In one of the pics, the slide bolt on the head is not completely engaged. You can see the black marks (post #1, pictures 9 & 10) on the head where it's been sliding across the wood. In none of the pictures do I see the slide bolt on bottom. Be sure the passive door is completely locked at top AND bottom. The stuff on the concrete is obviously concrete dust that got wet.

I really feel like i'm wasting breath on this thread for some reason.
 
  #23  
Old 11-25-15, 09:58 AM
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@marksr we are still waiting for the installer to come back and do his "caulk" fix as we explained to him about the leak. Good news is it's not suppose to rain anytime soon

*UPDATE* Looks like story changed. After 2 days the installer never showed up to do his "caulk" fix so we called the salesman & he just told us he will have someone from the door manufacturer to look at the door as he claims its a door defect now.

@chandler we have never touched that spot but once the door is finally fixed hopefully we plan just to paint the pool deck

@xsleeper. Here's pics with the side bolt pushed all the way the top and bottoms. It's REAL hard now to push down on "top slide bolt"

Photos to show I moved the slide bolts on top and bottom as far in as I could








Photos showing the open little spots where I can see little light coming in with the top/botto slide bolts all the way in. I'm no door expert but from what I read online doors should be sealed tight and to me this doesn't look








 
  #24  
Old 11-25-15, 10:31 AM
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First, it's quite clear that the door is not latched tight. Where both doors come together, it's barely even touching the weatherstripping that is on the astragal. The strike plate can be adjusted so that it latches as tight as you like.

Second, like I mentioned earlier, they make wedge shaped foam pads for the corners... which helps take care of the light you see at the corners where the vertical and horizontal weatherstripping meet.

There looks to be entirely too much fuzzy weatherstrip on top. It makes me wonder if half of it should have been used on the bottom. The way they installed it it looks like it is pushing back the q-lon weatherstrip, comppressing it. Generally you want to pull the q-lon out with your hand and tuck the fuzzy one back under it so that when you release the q-lon, the fuzz helps spread the q-lon out... not compress it.

And in the picture that shows the bottom center of the door, what is the debris that is between the door and the weatherstrip, that your red arrow is pointing at in your first post?

The picture that shows the vinyl frame that is not tight to the glass looks to me like maybe a screw was not tightened (before the plug covered it up) or maybe the screw is stripped and isn't holding.

Why there is light along the side of the door is a mystery. But I know that there are several sizes and styles of q-lon weatherstripping so possibly the door needs the next size larger weatherstrip. Or maybe that weatherstrip should have been installed on the astragal and they got the two styles mixed up. Generally the one on the hinge side is the big thick one and the one on the latch side is molded.

Believe it or not, all doors are rated to have a certain "acceptable" amount of air and water infiltration. Like I mentioned earlier, out swinging doors aren't very good in that regard... and it's usually true that you get what you pay for. A more expensive door would probably not have these issues. I'm sure your mfg rep will tell you that and he can always fall back on the warranty being voided when the door bottoms were cut. (Sad to say.)
 
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Old 11-26-15, 02:31 AM
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Thanks @XSleeper for all that information. The salesman called back and said for us to see how the door runs for 1 more week & if it leaks again he will have door manufacture stop by.

We had rain again today and this time didn't see any water getting inside. It must of been the caulk? They used silicone caulk and the salesman explained over the phone that silicone caulk eventually hardens overtime so it was probably not settled in yet the 1st day it rain

Still we are concerned on those open light spots like at the bottom/center of the door
but will def bring up these 3 points/solution you made to them


1) Have them adjust the strike plate so it latches more tighter
2) As for wedge strips you mentioned to fix the little light peaking on corners.. Is this it here found on amazon? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...3&sr=8-3-fkmr0
3) fix weatherstrips


That white debris is most likely concrete dust
 
  #26  
Old 11-26-15, 03:47 AM
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They used silicone caulk and the salesman explained over the phone that silicone caulk eventually hardens overtime so it was probably not settled in yet the 1st day it rain
That's a bunch of bull! Silicone like all caulks will set up more over time but rain can't go thru it one day and magically seal it's self up the next. Rain won't make fresh silicone caulk leak unless it pushes some of it out of the way ... and then that void is there forever or until it's repaired.
 
  #27  
Old 11-26-15, 04:22 AM
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I know it is water under the bridge, but using a quality product made for the application rather than relying on store shelf stuff can make a difference. I have had really good luck in using OSI Quad sealants. You can buy it in box stores, but what we use is OSI Quad Max and is only available through dealers. Not water soluable and will mess up your hands, as it is solvent clean up. But a good installer knows how to run a viable bead.
 
  #28  
Old 11-26-15, 06:24 AM
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Real late to the game here, so sorry.

Did any of you consider that the door was put in backwards? The threshold is on the inside. To me, there is no way that door won't leak, even if you close up all the air gaps.
 
  #29  
Old 11-26-15, 06:31 AM
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Z you might be right. On an outward swing door isn't the threshold set up kind of like a stop?
A pic of the door open showing the threshold should confirm/deny.
 
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Old 11-26-15, 07:04 AM
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I think it is an outswing door, BUT, there could be a short snap on threshold extension applied to help with any water infiltration at the bottom where it meets the concrete. I think the OP is worried more about the cracks around the door, and whether it is inswing or outswing wouldn't matter much. Good observation Z
 
  #31  
Old 11-26-15, 07:33 AM
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It's an out swinging door, as shown by the weatherstrip on the bottom and thin sill nose. This door doesn't have the option for a sill nose extension, I don't believe.

Yes, enycer, those are the corner pieces. Your door could probably use 6 of them. The door is called a prehung, even if it was shipped disassembled, which it sounds like it did.

The fact that it leaked even once indicates a problem. The caulk explanation is probably b.s. although the bottom of the sill nose (exterior on bottom) is clearly not caulked. That would probably be a good idea, as long as the sill nose doesn't have integrated weep holes... if it does, the sill nose would need to to be left open so as to drain. Depending on the way the wind is blowing it may leak some days or not leak on others. The biggest thing that would help this door is probably some type of metal drip edge that could be stuck above the top trim to keep water off the tops of the doors. As it is now, rain can run right down the side of the house and into that gap above the door. All it takes at that point is a little wind to push it in.

Enycer, after looking at all your pictures and arrows, did you ever say specifically where water was coming in? We are suffering from picture overload.
 
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