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Metal knock down door install question


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03-24-16, 06:01 PM   #1  
Metal knock down door install question

Pictured is the style of door frame I have, and brackets.

I framed in a new RO, so the bracket type used is no problem on the interior as the framing is exposed. However, the exterior is finished T-111 type siding with sheathing.

Are these anchors meant to be cut on the exterior side, or is this a cut the siding, leaving the sheathing, and wrapping that on the exterior side with the anchor?

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03-24-16, 06:22 PM   #2  
That type of door, when used in new construction, is installed during the framing process before any sheathing or siding is applied and before the drywall is on. Shims can be used (temporarily tacked in place behind the "casing") to approximate where the jamb will sit once sheathing and drywall are slipped behind. The nail flange is then bent back on both sides of the studs and is secured as you plumb and level the door. After it is secured, the sheathing and drywall are slipped behind the "casing".

Without knowing how thick your wall is, or how wide your door jamb is (inside measurement), it's hard to say exactly what you need to do in your situation.

They are not very energy efficient and are hard to insulate. Some guys will cut 2" foam to fit inside the jamb before installing them since you must stuff any fiberglass in there before the drywall and sheathing go in.

 
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03-24-16, 06:44 PM   #3  
Door specs are for a 4 3/4" wall, and the steel jam is 5 3/4" overall.

I will be matching the interior drywall at 1/2", and it's standard 2x4 framing with a 4x10 header.

I've yet to cut the exterior to match the new RO. But if I cut it flush with the studs there will be nothing but a bead of caulking between the door frame and siding. And, no fastening of the bracket on the exterior side. If that's typical, OK I guess.

UNLESS I treat it like installing a window, where, I cut the siding to the width of the trim board (1x4 I'd assume) and then fasten the bracket to the sheathing on the outside, and stud on the inside. Finishing it off by butting the trim up to the 2" face of the jamb. That seems off to me....

This is commercial, and I'm just wondering what is typical in this case? Cut the exterior side of the bracket and forget about it, or cut the siding and trim it out?

Did I provide enough info for you to get a picture of what I have here?

 
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03-24-16, 07:06 PM   #4  
I would want to know the inside dimension of the steel jamb... as measured right behind the strap in your illustration. That is 4 3/4", right? You still didn't say what the existing wall thickness is... you left out the sheathing thickness.

Like I said, those nail flanges have to get bent around both sides of the studs... and the exterior sheathing and drywall HAVE to get slipped behind the casing. If it doesn't, that door will shake and move like a leaf. So you should remove siding, if you havent... and also cut the sheathing back around the door, back to the next stud... to expose the exterior side of the studs. Install the door as I have mentioned... wrapping the nail flanges around the studs, plumb, level and secure the door, then (typically) you slip new 5/8" sheathing behind the door jamb casing outside. And slip 5/8" drywall behind the door jamb casing inside. If you don't have 5/8" and 5/8", it better be 1/2" drywall and 3/4"sheathing. If you have 1/2" and 1/2" the door will be sloppy (1/4" of play) and you would have to shim the exterior side to tighten the door up on the drywall side.


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03-24-16, 07:24 PM   #5  
It's 5 3/4" inside the jamb.

Not sure what wall thickness is on the exterior. Interior is 2x4 and 1/2" drywall.

I was just out in the hot tub thinking about the necessity of securing both sides of the strap to the stud for exactly the reason you state about a loose door.... it would never stay level/plumb without that strap secured tightly.

I wonder what people think sometimes.....

I'm about 16-20" away from a massive pile of electric service entrance, so getting the siding off at the correct location may not be possible.

 
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03-24-16, 07:31 PM   #6  
If it's 5 3/4" inside then you don't have a door that is spec'd for a 4 3/4" wall.

At a a minimum see what framing is on the sides, and if you can only cut out 3", so be it... but you need to nail the strap and slip some sheathing in. Add a stud or two if needed.

The strap is not what holds the door securely as far as in and out is concerned. The strap keeps the jamb from shifting left or right, up or down. The sheathing and drywall being wedged into the jamb pocket on both sides is what keeps the door tight in and out... which is imperative on a door that will be both slammed shut and yanked open. Any play will throw the door out of plumb and it will not seal correctly.

 
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03-24-16, 07:57 PM   #7  
Yes yes... the guy at the door supply house was telling me that today, about the drywall firming things up.

Drywall is going back up, but I won't be able to get to it for a few days after the door is installed.

Here's a pic of the actual info from the order sheet to help you help me... hopefully.

Is it me, or am I not alone in wondering why someone would order this door for a finished building?

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03-24-16, 08:08 PM   #8  
They are pretty standard for commercial applications. Like you said, if need be, you can cut back and install 1x4 trim around it as needed. If drywall isnt going in right away, just be sure you have it spaced away the right distance... use some 1/2" scraps inside to mimic the drywall thickness.

 
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03-24-16, 08:13 PM   #9  
Right, but why not order one made for existing structures? Just seems odd to go through all the trouble when they make these doors for the application

 
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03-25-16, 06:47 AM   #10  
Anyways..... thx for info.

 
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03-25-16, 07:03 AM   #11  
Glad to help.

If it's 5 3/4" inside then you don't have a door that is spec'd for a 4 3/4" wall.
The drawing shows it is 4 3/4" inside, (5 3/4" outside) so you will be ok provided you shim the frame tight to your 1/2" shim (the drywall) inside. The 4 3/4" is standard for commercial because in commercial they use 5/8" rock inside and out. (5/8 + 3 1/2 + 5/8 = 4 3/4") So thats why I'm saying that if you use 1/2" drywall and maybe have 1/2" sheathing... that you will still need 1/4" shims to tighten the jamb up on the exterior side.

 
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03-25-16, 07:21 AM   #12  
Maybe I'm incorrect about the 1/2 drywall, I'll have to double check.

In any event I'm still at a loss as to why someone would order a custom made door that uses new construction anchors. Perhaps it's a security thing.....

Headed out now to do it now .... one way or another.

 
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03-25-16, 08:54 PM   #13  
It was 5/8" drywall, but the sheathing was 3/8". Lol.... I ended up building it out, shimming the interior with 5/8" plywood for the time being, and trimming the exterior with custom made 1x8.

In any event, your info helped a ton. The door was supposed to be for a remodel, not new construction. The lock was supposed to be simple, but required a locksmith to install it. The list of supposed to's goes on, but I won't bore you with them.

 
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03-25-16, 09:02 PM   #14  
Glad you got it in. Always nice to be able to close the door b4 you leave.

 
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