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Installing windows - suction cups?


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04-29-17, 05:29 PM   #1  
Installing windows - suction cups?

I have 7 windows to install - and I never intend to do this again!

I've been looking at the cheap ($~16.00) double 4" suction cup models, they claim to hold 100 lbs / suction cup. I'd probably buy two. I've also seen the more expensive vacuum style with a button to create a vacuum, but they start at $59.00 and I'd need two.

For the lower windows (3' x 2') I could probably get away with a cheap Home Depot style single-suction cup unit for the low price of $9.00, as I'd only use it to rotate the window after fastening one of the window flanges in.

The two upper windows are larger, however, with a final size of 4'x4'.

All windows will be installed from a platform - aluminum pump jacks.

Are the suction cups necessary? They look useful, but I've never done this before. The reviews are scattered online on these things, and I don't want to drop a window. I know the lower windows can be installed without suction cups.

Thanks!

John

 
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04-29-17, 06:40 PM   #2  
Hi John,
Do your windows have a built in "J" channel? If so, I did a bunch using a frame that slides into each side with a bottom and a brace across the middle. That brace was the handle to lift and guide them. Once in place the frame simply slides out the bottom.

I've used this method on both platforms and off of a ladder. With the ladder it is best to have a window open and someone on the inside so you don't have to go to the top.

You could also install a shelf right at the bottom of the window to take the weigh while you position it.

Never used the suction cups and would only consider them on a really big window. 4' x 4' is not all that big.

Bud

 
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04-29-17, 06:47 PM   #3  
Do the windows open, or are they fixed pane? Why not install the windows from the inside? You will have help, I am sure. I would never install windows without help, even if just to ensure plumb and level and spacing within the RO. I never miss the opportunity to install the windows from the inside if possible.

 
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04-29-17, 06:59 PM   #4  
All of the windows open - the smaller windows are awning, the larger are two mulled casement windows (2'x4').

This is new construction, the windows have a window flange. No j-channel.

Now - when you say install from the inside - would I have to use masonry brackets? Or would I remove the window from the frame?

I will have help.

Thanks!

 
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04-29-17, 07:52 PM   #5  
Cups are nice, they give you a good handle to hold onto. I have four 8" Woods cups and use them all the time. (About half my work is windows) No way i'd trust any other cup. Last thing you want is for the cup to fall off as you are holding the window.

But for windows as small as you are talking about... No, you really don't need cups. If you did, you would probably only need one on a window that small... one arm it, with the other hand on the side or top. Anything 4x4 or smaller is just a little baby window.

I have no idea what you are talking about when you say you need to rotate the window. Been doing this a long time and have no need to "rotate anything".

 
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04-29-17, 08:08 PM   #6  
Sorry - 'tilt' - not 'rotate'. Essentially, align it so that it is level. So, one nail in a fin, then tilt till level, second nail on other side, recheck, and so forth.

I *wish* the 4x4 windows were baby windows to me . The 3x2 are "tiny" and I was able to temporarily hold it in the opening. I'm waiting for some flashing tape and then can do the install.


Regarding the installation... the instructions say to use a roofing nail every 6-8" around the perimeter. How is that sufficient to hold the window when both casements (2'x4') are cranked out? I don't think they make a screw with a flat enough head, but I would feel (in my unskilled opinion) better with screws than nails.

 
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04-29-17, 08:34 PM   #7  
You put shims on the bottom of the rough opening and level them (then tack them down) before you ever set the window on them. If the shims are level the window will be too.

 
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04-29-17, 08:57 PM   #8  
Got it! I've read so many guides, the mfg's instructions, 3M's flashing videos, hopefully I've got this down. Depending on my schedule maybe I'll post the steps I'll be taking to make sure I'm doing this right.

 
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04-30-17, 04:22 AM   #9  
This video may help since you are dealing with new construction windows. Old methods taught to wrap your WRB inside openings. Newer technologies go a different route and make better sense. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6cVnbUSK8Y

 
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04-30-17, 06:34 AM   #10  
Nice video Larry.
Ururk, I like the torque heat cabinet screws and i saw they were using them in the video. BTW, I'm addicted to torque head screws .

Bud

 
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04-30-17, 07:19 AM   #11  
Larry - thanks for the video! That's pretty close to what I was going to do. I cannot watch too many of these videos.

 
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05-01-17, 04:36 AM   #12  
Ok, I was re-reviewing everything, and this set of instructions is what I'll be following:

http://www.marvin.com/WebDoc/Window%...2019913776.pdf

as well as this method of flashing the RO:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zE8AkoM0gg

instead of the flexible sill pan (but I'll be following Marvin's instructions for the WRB).

 
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05-06-17, 06:26 PM   #13  
Well, got the first window in! I think it went well, much easier than I thought.

 
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05-11-17, 06:15 AM   #14  
All 3x2 awning windows are installed. I haven't insulated them yet - wanted to wait for the first rain or two to see if there is any water ingress. We had a soaker last night, no rain could be seen from below the window from the interior. I also was waiting for a foam gun to be delivered, just need a can of the low-expansion foam.

Next onto the larger units. Do you think I can take the sash out to install? It is a mulled unit with two sashes side by side, and I can barely lift it myself. It requires three structural brackets top and bottom where the mulled units meet (six total). Otherwise, the install is the same as the smaller units.

The biggest concern would be getting the frame true/square. I called Marvin's tech support phone number, and they seemed to indicate I could remove the windows to install.

For an inexperienced installer, is this a risky move?

 
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05-11-17, 09:29 AM   #15  
Once you get it set in the opening, and get it centered left to right, put 2 screws in the upper corners to hold it then put the sashes back in and lock them. Then eyeball the bottom to make sure its straight and not bowed. Check everything to see that its level plumb and square. (Measure diagonals, they should be equal). Also check width and height to ensure all 4 sides are parallel.

Once everything checks out, finish putting all your fasteners in.

 
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05-11-17, 09:57 AM   #16  
That makes sense - I didn't think of putting the sashes back in once the window was tacked in but not fully installed.

 
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05-11-17, 10:00 AM   #17  
What would measuring the width/height do? I understand measuring the diagonals. But if those are equal, isn't that enough?

 
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05-11-17, 10:34 AM   #18  
You check for parallel inside and out to ensure nothing is bowed. This is especially important on a double hung.

A window might be straight outside at the fin but bowed inside on the extension jamb. Your instructions normally tell you how often to shim and secure the interior part of the window... you dont just fasten the fin and think thats all you have to do.

Nothing worse than trying to put casing on a window that was foamed in when the sides weren't straight in the first place.

 
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05-12-17, 04:28 PM   #19  
Got it! The other windows were so small, not a whole lot of room to bow. I did shim those per mfg instructions too.

 
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05-12-17, 05:37 PM   #20  
Baby windows. Try lifting this one 2 stories high. It was 6x11. Sashes direct set (not removable)... thanks, Pella.
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05-12-17, 06:27 PM   #21  
Wow - and I even have a pump jack to assist me and I'm going to be taking the sashes out.

Thanks for the advice - I have a bit or prep work to do, but I hope to have at least one installed this weekend!

 
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05-12-17, 06:47 PM   #22  
7 x 7 fixed. Two sections of scaffolding, 4 people, 4 cups, 6 walk boards, one level at a time. It can get interesting for sure.

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05-12-17, 07:02 PM   #23  
That's some pretty glass!

 
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05-12-17, 08:02 PM   #24  
Yeah, having the scenery painted on was a bear , JK. I think it is LoE 366

 
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06-08-17, 04:27 AM   #25  
Well, between rain, waiting for replacement parts from Marvin (they left off some parts required for installation), and other delays, the last two windows are installed! I ended up removing the sashes for both window units. After getting the frames secured with one screw, I checked for squareness, secured one of the structural brackets at top (factory mulled), installed the sashes (making sure to include the factory-included spacers), checked all measurements, then fastened and flashed per the previous five windows.

I don't know how any of you handle those larger windows! And so far, no leaks!

 
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