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Replacing door hinge screws, brass vs zinc and wood vs machine?

Replacing door hinge screws, brass vs zinc and wood vs machine?

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  #1  
Old 05-19-19, 07:50 AM
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Replacing door hinge screws, brass vs zinc and wood vs machine?

We just replaced the front door in our brick+hollow clay block house. It's custom made 2-1/4" thick solid maple (and frame). It is super heavy lol. This being a retrofit we had to work with what we found. The rough opening wasn't incredibly even, or supportive on either side so we added 2x4 blocks to screw the frame into. Even still much of the frame as 1/2"-3/4" gap around it (which made shimming it fun :/ ) Fortunately the frame is 1" thick solid maple also and seems strong enough to support the door. The frame itself is also installed securely.

But... the #12 x 1-1/4" screws provided with the Deltana 4.5" x 4.5" square hinges don't have much to grab in to (being only a 1" thick frame with no solid jam on the opposite side). The door is sagging a bit on the top, and the top hinge doesn't look sat perfectly squarely. Not sure if the screws are pulling a bit or if it was due to being incredibly heavy/difficult to stand up right while installing. We're trying to decide on longer/stronger screw options.

We're thinking of blocking behind the hinges and just installing #12 x 2-1/2" wood screws, or possibly switching to machine screws with a nut and washer in the gap behind frame? #12 brass flat machine screws don't seem to be a thing. The only options are #10 or 1-1/4" brass screws or switch to a zinc machine screw (either way I'll have to touch up paint them oil rubbed bronze to match the hardware).

Any reason door hardware always seems to be brass? Will I have an issue using zinc-plated instead? And would I be better off just blocking behind the frame/hinge and using longer #12 wood screws?

Thanks
 
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  #2  
Old 05-19-19, 08:36 AM
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You added 2x4 blocking between existing and the new door frame.
What is the "existing" ? What is behind that.

A door frame should be framed out with a double 2x4 in the wall. Your screws need to go thru the hinge, thru the blocking and into something solid. 2-1/2" screws will not cut it.
 
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Old 05-19-19, 09:54 AM
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You want flat head sheet metal screws because wood screws are not threaded for the whole length. If you use a wood screw you have the smooth unthreaded portion in a third of your wood not thread. You want/need all thread in your jamb.

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A flat head sheet metal screw.
 
  #4  
Old 05-19-19, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by PJmax
You added 2x4 blocking between existing and the new door frame.
What is the "existing" ? What is behind that.

A door frame should be framed out with a double 2x4 in the wall. Your screws need to go thru the hinge, thru the blocking and into something solid. 2-1/2" screws will not cut it.
I attached an image of what I'm working with. Please keep in mind this house was built in the 1940s and this is my house, I'm not working one someone else's. As I feel like I say regularly on here, I'm not trying to get this up to current building codes. I'm just looking for advice on the best way to handle what I have to work with :]

We demoed the existing door and frame out of the brick and structural terra cotta tiles (https://historicbldgs.com/terra_cotta.htm) exterior of the house. The existing frame was screwed into 2x4s embedded in between the tiles/mortar. There were only three 2x4s on each side, so in addition to those we installed a half dozen more on each size into the hollow clay tiles with shims and construction adhesive.

From there we installed 4-1/2" wood lag screws through the middle of the frame (behind the weather stripping that hasn't been installed yet) into the approximately nine different 2x4's in the structural clay tile. Now the frame is incredibly secure, but as you can see from the picture due to the mess of old mortar and tiles...there is nothing good to screw into behind the the hinges themselves, as well as there is a 3/4" gap around most of the frame (again we shimmed and drove 4-1/2" lag screws into 2x4s embedded in the tile to make up for this...)

I attached a second picture of the area behind the middle hinge (with the 1-1/4" screws provided with hinge sticking out). I'm thinking of putting a 1"x2"x6" (2x4 cut to size, or a piece of plywood) behind the hinge to give a longer screw more to grip into as well as distribute the wait along a large section of the fram...now i realize this is not ideal but i don't have many other options at this point... Like I said I was almost contemplating using machine screws with nuts and washers as an alternative as the threads might be less likely to to pull out than wood screws which have don't much to grip to...

Note: The interior wall/wood you can make out in the picture is only 1x2 furring strips (and maybe a piece of sheetrock I used a shim to get plumb) and sheetrock I installed over the original 3/4" plaster interior walls. The plaster is applied directly to the structural clay tiles.

Originally Posted by ray2047
You want flat head sheet metal screws because wood screws are not threaded for the whole length. If you use a wood screw you have the smooth unthreaded portion in a third of your wood not thread. You want/need all thread in your jamb.

A flat head sheet metal screw.
Thank you, I guess my only question/concern would be aren't those threads typically finer than wood screw's threads and may not hold as strongly in wood?

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Last edited by PJmax; 05-19-19 at 01:13 PM. Reason: reiszed picture
  #5  
Old 05-19-19, 11:52 AM
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Threads are the same. That is the type of screw normally included with hinges.

Guessing when you speak of threads your confusing machine screws with sheet metal screws.
 
  #6  
Old 05-19-19, 12:27 PM
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ekk my pictures had disappeared...why does doityourself.com censor image hosting url's so I can't insert the picture into the text properly?

Originally Posted by ray2047
Threads are the same. That is the type of screw normally included with hinges.

Guessing when you speak of threads your confusing machine screws with sheet metal screws.
Cool thank you..so that over a machine screw+nut/washer that I can really crank down on? 7'6" tall by 2'9" wide x 2-1/4" thick...it's massive lol.
 
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Old 05-19-19, 12:41 PM
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Some hosting sites have allowed questionable content and it has appeared here.
That's one reason why DIY allows local hosting on its site.

Maybe I'm missing something. I would think you'd need at least a 2x4 attached to the brick for something solid to mount the door to.
 
  #8  
Old 05-19-19, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by PJmax
Maybe I'm missing something. I would think you'd need at least a 2x4 attached to the brick for something solid to mount the door to.
You can see in the picture where the original 2x4s (blue) were embedded in the tiles/mortar for the original frame. We stuck additional 2x4's into the structural tiles secured with construction adhesive in (approximately, doing this by memory) the additional (green) highlighted spaces. shimmed and lag screwed the frame into all of those spots. Edit: (Obviously) I'm just highlighting this side because the picture is pointed this way, we did the same thing on the hinge side of the door as well.

Maybe there were better ways of doing it, but we custom ordered this door over a year ago and it was finally delivered this week. We only got a good look at what we were dealing with/securing to when we demoed the door and frame yesterday...

FWIW the door came out amazing looking (still have a storm door to install on the outside of the frame)...It just appears like the top hinge isn't fully seated properly (which is causing the door to barely brush the frame when it's closed) even though the frame is plumb. Like I said we struggled to hold the door while installing the hinges...and we did bottom, middle then top...I'm wondering if bottom then top would have been better...

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Last edited by EvanVanVan; 05-19-19 at 03:41 PM. Reason: resized pictures
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