New bathroom vent fan dripping water

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  #1  
Old 11-03-18, 11:41 AM
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New bathroom vent fan dripping water

I recently renovated our bathroom, new shower (in same place as old one), replaced 60cfm vent fan with 80cfm, using the same hole in the ceiling. I've had a few showers since then, and every time the vent fan has dripped quite a lot.

Some details:
  • humidity is just over 60% RH in our house for the past couple weeks - just the time of the year, no AC running, heat runs only a little. So perhaps this has some to do with it, but still, before the renovnation and new exhaust fan, we've had periods of higher humidity, without having this issue.
  • I read online to insulate the vent so that condensation doesnt build up on a cold vent. so i did that. But it didnt help. I didnt think it would anyway, since it was dripping even when it was 75 in the attic.
  • The old fan (which i cant remember ever dripping) had a 3" dryer vent hose, routed about 10 ft and out the side of our house. The new fan had a 4" duct connection, so i bought a flexible 4' x 10' metal duct (more rigid than the cheaper dryer vents) and then at the end where it exits the house, that metal connection was still 3", so rather than break the brick up and make the hole bigger and install a larger damper exit thing (dont know the correct terminology here ) , instead i bought a 3" to 4" duct adapter. So maybe not ideal, but the fan is technically slightly oversized for the room anyway, according to the calculators.
  • The exhaust hose runs horizontally through the attic. The exit hole in the side ofthe house is just above the ceiling joists. I read that the best way to route the hose is you run straight up through the roof. I guess I could do that, but not sure if it would fix the problem. But I'd do it if it worked.
  • The fan is above the shower, sort of. So perhaps moving it across the room would be better. But I just installed it where the old one was, rather than making a new hole and having a big drywall patch job. I honestly wonder if this is going to be the best way to fix the issue, but why did the old one not drip?? It was in the same spot..

I welcome any ideas anyone has, as this is really frustrating! I've included some pics of the fan location and install, including from the attic. Please tell me i did a terrible job, I dont care! Just want to know what to do to fix it.





 
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  #2  
Old 11-03-18, 12:07 PM
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Your duct needs to be buried in insulation for one thing. Better air sealing would be good as well... not just a single thin batt laying loosely on top of it... It also helps to have a dip in the ductwork that will accumulate any condensation that happens to want to collect. Besides the duct, the body of the fan is metal so if the attic is cold, it can sweat. That's likely what's happening here. What I would do is cut some rigid foam to fit over all sides of the fan housing, and glue that to the sides and top of the housing, then cover that with insulation.

In extreme cases, you can lay a large sheet of 4 mil poly over the entire bathroom area... then cover that with about 12" or more of loose cellulose or fiberglass blow in insulation. Most energy standards call for R-49 in attics, so yours is woefully under insulated, and that is part of the problem here. Heat loss is causing the condensation.
 
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Old 11-03-18, 01:21 PM
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You need insulated duct and a 4" vent so airflow is not restricted.

Dripping water is due to warm condensation on a cold surface, the uninstalled duct!

Agree with XS, you need a ton of insulation in that attic, you are wasting a lot of $ on heating and cooling!!

https://www.doityourself.com/forum/a...1&d=1541272870
 
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Old 11-03-18, 03:14 PM
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I think the insulation is R-30, which I guess was code for the area in 1997. Dont know what the code is now (NC). Unfortunately, most of the attic is covered in plywood and is used for storage. Adding insulation to the whole attic would be a major job. Though I would guess maybe 40% of it does not have plywood nailed down, including this section in the pic.

I get the cool attic, condensation concept. I guess I'm surprised it would happen when the attic is somewhat warm. The first time the dripping occurred, it was 75 up there. I'm pretty sure it may have been warmer than that up there yesterday, and same dripping. The house itself has been around 70-72, so the attic actually warmer, at least at times. Though today its 62 up there(wireless thermometer). I guess I thought covering the vent up (I actually packed the insulation around it pretty tight) would be enough, but I guess I'm wrong here. Note that I didnt really see much of a difference in the amount of drip whether i had the vent pipe covered up or not.

I also dont get why i didnt get dripping with the old fan, since it was installed the exact same way, with absolutely no insulation covering it up. I did confirm that no damper is stuck - air is definitely blowing out the exterior vent.

So maybe step 1 is to replace the exterior vent with 4" , so as to not restrict the air flow.
Then insulate the vent piper better, and try to put a dip in it. Its difficult since the outlet on the fan itself is so low....i guess it would need to go up, and then back down, like an upside down p-trap or something...

Might be hard to tell in the pic, but it does look like the water is coming from the side where the fan outlet is. Meaning, it could be condensating in the pipe and running back in or something.
 
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Old 11-03-18, 04:24 PM
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Get rid of the flexible aluminum that is cold in the morning. Get something insulated like Marq showed. A new 4" louver is a good idea.
 
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Old 11-03-18, 05:15 PM
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Your duct line is currently pitched back to the fan so everything that collects will run back into the fan.
 
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Old 11-03-18, 05:30 PM
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Something some hvac guys do (you see this more commonly on vertical flues that are susceptible to condensation running down the pipe) is to use a tee as a catch basin for condensation. The tee is placed so that the two opposite ends of the tee are vertical while the other is horizontal. The bottom of the tee gets capped and sealed so that it can collect condensation. (Where it eventually evaporates) The horizontal part is connected to the fixture being vented. Then in your case, an elbow would go on the top of the tee and head downhill toward the vent louver. All of this would be insulated pipe... or be buried in insulation.
 
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Old 11-03-18, 05:56 PM
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Update, my daughter took a shower in there just now. Before she did, I tucked more insulation all around the pipe and the fan housing, then piled a big pile on top. Then I ran the hair dryer into the running fan for a couple minutes to warm the pipe up. She came out after the shower, and I went in to find....drip, drip, drip. About every 10 seconds it drips. I cant imagine that having an insulated pipe is going to solve my issues. Not that I'm arguing that it shouldnt be insulated, b/c it clearly should be. But I dont think its going to solve the issue. Its 62 in the attic right now. In the winter its going to be in the 30s up there.

As far as pitch (PJMax's comment)... there isnt a good way to run it downhill. Actually the line is completely horizontal for about 5 feet or so, then it goes uphill slightly to the louver on the side of the house.
 
  #9  
Old 11-03-18, 06:20 PM
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Update #2.
I took the fan out of the housing, and found this:





Theres a lip between the fan output and the vent hose. Its maybe 1/3-1/2" high. This means water from the vent hose couldnt even come back in, unless it was full of water. I stuck my finger in there, and though it was wet to the touch, its not like there was a puddle of water behind the lip. Leads me to believe the water is coming from the fan itself. The ceiling around the fan and above the shower is damp after a shower. Could it just be that so much steam/vapor is hitting the fan portion itself that its collecting and dripping?
 

Last edited by buildingdeck; 11-03-18 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 11-03-18, 06:48 PM
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Update #3. Ok so, I think I have it figured out. I made my son take a shower in there this time...determined to get to the bottom of this....He's been begging to test the rain head shower head anyway. Of course, drip drip drip from the fan as expected. I took the fan out again to have a closer look. I noticed this time that the plastic fan blades were covered in moisture, and the plastic housing than the fan spins in was covered with water droplets on the inside. Pics below. Actually when i took the fan out and titled it to the side, probably a teaspoon of water (or more) spilled out the side. This was FROM ONE SHOWER, as i had dumped it after my daughters shower as well. So my theory: Being above the shower (sort of, its like half way above the shower and half way above the bathroom floor), its getting enough moisture/steam that its collecting on the fan blades and in the fan housing, and flinging off the blades onto the inside of the fan housing, collecting, puddling, and dripping down. I mean, the ceiling around the fan and above the shower is physically wet as well, so it makes sense in my head. Tell me i'm crazy, but I think that is the cause. The old fan was lower CFM and also an AC fan, with totally different fan blade design (4 blades like a ceiling fan instead of 60 or however many this one has), so it had less surface area to collect on and was pulling less air through it. Makes me sorta regret I replaced it. I think my only solution might be to move it out of the direct line of steam. Or to find a fan with a different design and less surface area.


 
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Old 11-04-18, 05:10 AM
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Im going to guess that air flow is blocked and simply not moving the air, and moisture out of the bath room,

You state it's a larger CFM fan but then it's chocked at the vent which could be reducing it below the original fan.
 
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Old 11-04-18, 05:40 AM
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but then it's chocked at the vent which could be reducing it below the original fan.
Just for giggles, to test this theory pull off the vent reducer. and let the exhaust vent directly into the attic space this once (won't do any harm for one or two occasions).

Personally, I'm with you on the fact the fan design happens to be the problem.

In spite of all the insulation talk and the horizontal run of the duct and the size of the duct, IT DID NOT HAPPEN BEFORE THE NEW FAN!

However, when I did my reno of the bath I also put the fan directly over the tub/shower, but I ran the exhaust through the roof. That would solve your problem.
 
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Old 11-04-18, 08:05 AM
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Update! I disconnected the hose from the 3" reducer in the attic, and just let the fan vent into the attic through the 10ft vent hose, and took a steamy shower. NO DRIP!!! A drip didnt even start to form, and I left the shower running for a few more minutes after I was out. So i guess the cause was just from the restricted air flow. Air was definitely moving before (I confirmed outside the house), but i guess the volume was just too low with it being reduced down to 3".

At this point i might just replace the 4" aluminum flex pipe with 4" insulated flex pipe, replace the 3" louver vent with a 4" one, and call it a day.
 

Last edited by buildingdeck; 11-04-18 at 09:44 AM.
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Old 11-04-18, 04:07 PM
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Uggggh. So I definitely spoke too soon! I went back in the bathroom hours later and found a puddle on the floor and water droplets on the fan grill. I also acted a little too soon b/c I just got back from Lowes with a 4" wall vent and insulated vent line. This is really frustrating.
 
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Old 11-04-18, 05:01 PM
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Try this. Take off the fan grill work (the part you see when looking up). Then try run a steam shower and see if you can spot condensation forming on the fan blades. What bothers me is the fact that before the change to the new fan you had no trouble. I would like to see the new fan eliminated before any other item is tried. Moving the exhaust over the tub/shower should not be that big a deal. I would also try returning the fan for a different model with a different blade configuration.

A thought...Before your reno, with the old fan in operation, did you have condensation in the bathroom after showers? Were the walls damp or the mirror heavy with condensation (enough that droplets were running down the mirror)?
 

Last edited by Norm201; 11-04-18 at 06:36 PM.
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Old 11-04-18, 10:37 PM
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When you are pulling moisture vapor directly into the fan the air is saturated and warm. Even a couple of degrees drop will result in condensation. Be careful with results while the attic is not all that cold. Worst case is when you want to make sure it works, then all other times will be fine.

I didn't go back and read every post but haven't heard if you are turning the fan off shortly after a shower or letting it run for 30 minutes.

I understand the confusion about the old fan not having a problem and not the new one does, but that is only one piece of the puzzle, the rest deals with standard best practices. As mentioned, one of those best practices is a delayed off switch to allow the fan to continue to run after you leave.

I keep hearing "steam" and no mention about "short showers". Another best practice is to control the human input but taking shorter showers with reduced steam. We haven't discussed the rest of the house but in summer long showers can add to the moisture load for the whole house. Winter usually absorbs the excess.

IMO, continue with the current fan, upgrade the duct and exhaust cover to insulated 4", install a delayed off power switch, and take shorter showers.

Also, repeat the test with the exhaust vented into the attic, but after the shower has ended leave the fan running for 30 minutes, then check for dripping a few minutes later. Also, be sure there is a source of replacement air when the fan is running, 1" under the door is common.

Bud
 
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Old 11-05-18, 04:56 AM
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leave the fan running for 30 minutes,
Good point Bud. Maybe 30 minutes is a bit long but I tell my girls to leave it on for at least 15 minutes with the door open.
 
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Old 11-05-18, 07:27 AM
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Bud9051,
The fan is on a 30 minute timer, so it runs for 30 minutes no matter the length of shower. I havnt timed the showers but I would guess less than 10 min, so at least 20 min of extra run time after the shower.

The shower lengths are the same....we're not taking showers any longer now than we did before the renovation.

We do have 2 shower heads now (a standard one thats I think 1.75gpm, and a rain head thats 2.5. When we've used the rain head, it has significant dripping. But even with the 1.75gpm one, it drips. Also, this standard head 1.75gpm shower head is less volume than our old one....I believe the old one was 2 or 2.25, not sure, but was definitely more. So theoretically less volume should mean even less steam than we had before.

Also, these things stated above are true even when vented through the 4" wall vent with insulated vent line. I didnt want to admit it before, but when i found that it had dripped yesterday after the shower where i had it vented into the attic, it was after I had already installed the new 4" wall louver and insulated line. I came back in to turn the fan on to test the new vent line, and found the water that dripped from the earlier shower, and felt like an idiot. It had just dripped post-shower that time for whatever reason, whereas in all other cases it starts dripping several minutes into the shower. We've had 2 showers in there since i installed the insulated line, I used the rain head last night and she used the standard one this morning, and as stated, its dripping with both, but less dripping than there was when i had the flow restricted with the 3" reducer/3" louver.

Norm201,
Yes the walls were damp before the reno after showers. Its a fairly small bathroom (10'x6'). We had mold/mildew issues in the shower b/c it stayed wet. Thats one reason i upgraded the 60cfm fan to 80cfm, to try to pull more moisture out during/after the shower.

I've had the fan for over 3 months now, was the first thing I installed at the start of the reno. So unfortunatley cant take it back now, but i could move it over the shower and just let it drip away, but into the shower. Or i guess i could try another design. But I have a feeling these new DC fans are going to be designed similarly as far as fan blade configuration, but i could be wrong.

I actually have run the shower with the grill take off. Its hard to see the fan blades until I actually take the screws out and pull the fan down out of the square metal box housing. But yes, moisture is definitely accumulating on the fan blades (they look wet directly after a shower) and inside the plastic fan housing where the blades rotate inside of. I included pics of that several posts below. The dripping is absolutely coming from the fan itself, not the vent line. Its condensating on the plastic, building up into a small puddle, and then dripping. You can see the droplets of water dripping from the plastic in one of the first pics I posted.
 

Last edited by buildingdeck; 11-05-18 at 07:45 AM.
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Old 11-05-18, 07:40 AM
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My feeling is that since the bath remodel you have more steam from the pattern (dispersal) of the shower water, the height of the shower door glass, maybe the Sq ft of the shower, the cold tile, etc. If any of this changed, (Sq ft got larger?) The amount of steam would increase exponentially due to the surface area. And the fan is right in the path of all that steam. If it was farther away it would have a better chance of not beading up on it. As is, it's right in the path of the steam.
 
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Old 11-05-18, 07:52 AM
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Though, if i were to go for a different fan design, something like this might work well...just mount thing thing in the attic...

 
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Old 11-05-18, 07:56 AM
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My feeling is that since the bath remodel you have more steam from the pattern (dispersal) of the shower water, the height of the shower door glass, maybe the Sq ft of the shower, the cold tile, etc. If any of this changed, (Sq ft got larger?) The amount of steam would increase exponentially due to the surface area. And the fan is right in the path of all that steam. If it was farther away it would have a better chance of not beading up on it. As is, it's right in the path of the steam.
I'd say the biggest change is just the fan. The shower itself might possibly be a couple inches wider in both directions. I dont recall what the size of the old one was. But this new one is 5x3. Both were tile on 2 walls, glass on 2 walls. This ones glass is likely a couple inches higher. The bathroom size was not changed.
 
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Old 11-05-18, 07:58 AM
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Bigger volume = more steam being pulled through it.
 
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Old 11-05-18, 11:39 AM
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We recently had a member complaining about more steam in his bathroom after changing from a shower curtain to glass doors. You wouldn't think that would make a difference either but raising the glass or the curtain concentrates the steam. That combined with a fan that sucks harder and is right in the midst of the steam... Im not surprised it collects and flicks the moisture that is on it. Heating the bathroom prior to taking a shower might decrease the condensation on the fan blades. (along with insulating the shroud as was previously mentioned). Things condense due to temperature difference.
 
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Old 11-05-18, 02:15 PM
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i wonder how much humidity in the house plays a part. Its 62% in the living room, according to a sensor i had in there. I moved it into the bathroom a while ago and its saying 71%. It all boils down to the time of year. I actually have a dehumidifier in the crawlspace that maintains between 50-55% down there year round. But we're in between summer and winter, so the AC isnt running (so no humidification from that). We're keeping the house at 70 degrees right now, and colder air can hold less water. So I sorta wonder if my issue would be non-existent in the summer (house stays at 78 degrees and about 50% humidity) and winter, (house temp at 70 degrees but RH% is usually 45-50%).

I suppose we could try to squeegee the glass every shower, move the towel bar out of the bathroom, mop up the shower floor with a towel....but all that gets old fast . But buying a portable dehum for this time of year, or even a whole house one might be a wise investment anyway, and perhaps fix this issue...

One thing I've noticed is that the glass usually dries off between showers but the shower floor definitely does not, which is probably why we had mold/mildew issues before. With the RH at 70%, that water probably very slowly dries.
 
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Old 11-05-18, 02:19 PM
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It is the temperature of the sufaces combined with the dewpoint in the room. If your fan housing was 100F, then the 98F air coming off your hot water that has 99% humidity would not condense on the surface of the fan. Simple as that.

When the fan housing is only 70F, and the temperature AND dewpoint in the room goes up to 75F when you take a shower, (100% RH) you are going to get condensation on ALL those surfaces when you take a shower. Just like your mirror.
 
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Old 11-05-18, 02:41 PM
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Now you are thinking.
When taking RH readings always take a temp reading same time and location. Then use a calculator to get the dew point. To make comparing easier I like to use that dew point with a reference temp like 70 to see what that air would read if it were room temp. Apples to apples.

Your numbers sound a bit high. Is the floor of the crawlspace dirt or concrete?

Also, what is the temp and RH outside, since all homes exchange a lot of air.?

By looking at the crawlspace and then outside, if your moisture isn't coming from those locations then there has to be one or more other sources.

Bud
 
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Old 11-05-18, 02:43 PM
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When the fan housing is only 70F, and the temperature AND dewpoint in the room goes up to 75F when you take a shower, (100% RH) you are going to get condensation on ALL those surfaces when you take a shower. Just like your mirror.
Yep, but its a bathroom, AKA a tightly enclosed room with hot water falling from the near the ceiling, splashing, making a big wet, steamy mess. So not sure how to prevent that.
 
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Old 11-05-18, 02:49 PM
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Your numbers sound a bit high. Is the floor of the crawlspace dirt or concrete?

Also, what is the temp and RH outside, since all homes exchange a lot of air.?


Dirt crawlspace, but last year I encapsulated it with a 25 mil vapor barrier all the way up the walls, and a dehum to keep it about 53% under there. I did that due to moisture issues under there and in the house. A crawlspace is a bad idea on a house (my opinion), but at least I have a whole house sq ft of extra storage space now!

Today the temp outside is 66, and humidity 99% (rainy) Part of the "its that time of year" thing I mentioned. Spring/Fall is the worst, often stays somewhat wet outside here. House was built in 97, so probably not as air tight as today's standards. I've watched the humdity in the house for the past week or so, its fluctuated between 59 and 63%. It was worse before the crawlspace encapsulation, and would get up to higher 60's. We'd run a dehum in the house back then, b/c stuff would get wet.
 
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Old 11-05-18, 04:22 PM
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My 2cents, when I re did my bath about 5 years ago we installed a high flow shower head with a walk in shower but I installed one of those monster in-line vents, 6" duct that draws from inside the shower and above the toilet,

Its a small bath room 8 x 16 but only need to run the vent for 2 min and every bit of steam/moisture is gone.

Maybe you need to up the game more!
 
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Old 11-05-18, 05:20 PM
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So not sure how to prevent that.
As a test, put a portable electric heater in the bathroom. Set it on high. Let it run for a HOUR and make it unbearably hot in the bathroom. (This will heat up the ceiling and fan... and prove my point). Then turn on your shower and do your test. I would be willing to bet money that you will not get any dripping or condensation if you do that, which proves this problem is primarily related to the temperature of the fan housing itself and the rising RH in the bathroom during shower use... and the other things mentioned to a lesser degree.

One solution that might seem strange... I bet that if you wrapped the housing of the fan with heat tape (as if it were a water pipe you wanted to prevent from freezing) it might solve the problem altogether.
 
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Old 11-06-18, 07:10 AM
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My 2cents, when I re did my bath about 5 years ago we installed a high flow shower head with a walk in shower but I installed one of those monster in-line vents, 6" duct that draws from inside the shower and above the toilet,
Marq1,
I was looking at those in-line fans, since it might solve the drip issue at least by putting the fan itself further in the attic. I also wonder if upping the game might help some to get the steam out of the bathroom before it has a chance to collect on stuff. According the calculators online, I need about a 64cfm fan, so what I installed is 80cfm. Is your ceiling 8ft? If so, this calculator I'm looking at is saying 137cfm for yours. Just curious, how big did you go?


XSleeper,
What you suggest would be a good experiment to run...I do have a small space heater here somewhere, so maybe I'll try it. Though it obviously wouldnt be practical to do that every time, but I know thats not what you were suggesting. And I wouldnt be surprised if the drip is gone, for reasons you said, but also just raising the air temp will drop the humidity in there down (since warmer air can hold more water) and raise the dew point up. So it makes sense, there will be less condensation in general. But I cant do that on an ongoing basis, so maybe I should do as Marq1, and go big Get the water vapor out before it has a chance to collect.

Humidity in the bathroom is 75% this morning, and 64% in the house. So I think the extra humidity in the house as i mentioned before cant be helping the situation. Makes me think about that whole home dehumidifier again. If i had one, I'd probably keep the house at 45% or so. Thats almost 20% lower than current levels. Funny that a bathroom fan drip might be leading me towards a $2000 expense, but 64% in the house is a problem.
 

Last edited by buildingdeck; 11-06-18 at 07:33 AM.
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Old 11-06-18, 07:36 AM
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A drop in air pressure will also result in a drop in temperature. Your fan is creating negative pressure on one side and positive pressure on the other. I wonder how much this affects the temperature of the fan blades? It's acting like a miniature dehumidifier.
 
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Old 11-06-18, 11:03 AM
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AXC150A-ES

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235 cu ft! Sucks the paint off the walls!


https://www.doityourself.com/forum/a...1&d=1541527376
 
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Old 11-06-18, 04:33 PM
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Marq1,
Thanks for the info. I seriously might consider the 147 cfm model since my bathroom is smaller than yours and 235 might be overkill. But I think it would certainly be more effective than the 80cfm I have now. As it is, if i take a hot shower (especially with the rain head), the room really gets steamed up and walls/ceiling wet.
 
  #35  
Old 11-06-18, 05:23 PM
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Don't recall you mentioning but is the door undercut or other source of replacement air for that fan.

Have you tested with the door left open?

Ignore me if I'm not paying attention, busy day.

Bud
 
  #36  
Old 11-06-18, 10:33 PM
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FWIW I have a small bathroom and when I was getting a fan I sized it with an online calculator. It said that my small bath needed a 120CFM exhaust fan. That's what I installed and it's been trouble-free so far.

And (imho) you should never reduce an exhaust duct.
 
  #37  
Old 11-07-18, 06:21 AM
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Don't recall you mentioning but is the door undercut or other source of replacement air for that fan.

Have you tested with the door left open?
The door is undercut by about 1". I haven't tested with the door left open...i expect that would certainly likely help it, but also spread a lot of humid air into the house, something I want to try to avoid right now with the house already on the upper side of humidity. I guess I could experiment and leave it cracked a bit to see if it changes anything.
 
  #38  
Old 11-07-18, 06:47 AM
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Location: New England
Posts: 10,109
Any air that is exiting your house is being replaced by outside air. So, what is your outside temp and RH. Run those readings through the calculator, post #26, for the dew point and then that dew point with inside temp to get the resulting RH. If above current inside RH then it is contributing to your humidity. If below your inside RH it is not contributing thus you are getting moisture from somewhere else. People activities, fish tanks, I've listed this before, but point is, a process of elimination will get you to the source. Even a dryer vented to the outside can be found to be disconnected.

Double check the crawlspace as over 50% of the house air can come from there.

We are headed into cold season so inside RH numbers should be dropping, track them and keep a record

Bud
 
  #39  
Old 11-07-18, 09:09 AM
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Location: Northern Virginia
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I say move the fan away from the shower, install an insulated duct, and be done with it.
 
  #40  
Old 11-07-18, 09:11 AM
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Bud9051,

I know where the sources of humidity are. It has been a bit rainy here over the last couple weeks, so outside humidity has often been high. The crawlspace is good - I have a dehum down there and I get alerted if it ever gets above 60%, in case the dehum dies or something. Its currently 54%.

Then we have 4 bodies in the house at all times (kids homeschool, I work from home), then we cook all our food, dont go out to eat much, we also dont have a stove vent (something I'm thinking might be a good move to make), then theres the showers of course, and add to it that the AC hasnt run in probably 3-4 weeks.
 

Last edited by buildingdeck; 11-07-18 at 09:43 AM.
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