Ancient Norge Wall Oven

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  #1  
Old 02-14-06, 08:05 PM
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Unhappy Ancient Norge Wall Oven

We have a 1960's or 1970's wall oven
Norge by Fedders
Model # EOK 243017
Serial # 2427

The wife was preheating today and the oven shut off.
My theory is the timer got bumped and shut the oven off.
Can can I just unhook the timer wires, tape them with black tape and hopefully solve this problem??

TIA,

T in Carolina
 

Last edited by TTTTom; 02-18-06 at 05:33 PM.
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  #2  
Old 02-16-06, 07:08 AM
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One more try

Anybody have a clue about the timer / oven shutoff Mystery??

TIA,

T
 
  #3  
Old 02-16-06, 06:14 PM
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Check the clock,
Some of them have a setting that becomes visible
when you turn the knobs labled "Man" or manual.
If the clock has this make sure its set accordingly.
If it doesnt just make sure the stop button is pushed in.

Good Luck
 
  #4  
Old 02-16-06, 06:37 PM
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GMaxx

Thanks for your post!

The clock hasn't worked in years. The timer has two dials - one for length of time and the other for a start time. There was a setting for "M" or "Man" (can't see it right now) - I tried to set it on M and still no help.

I pulled the front cover and unplugged all the wires (taping them with black tape) to the oven timer.


If the thermostat is dead - will this prevent the oven from working??

TIA,

Stuck in Carolina !
 
  #5  
Old 02-16-06, 07:03 PM
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"The clock hasn't worked in years."

Thats nothing new Ive been on calls where the clock
hasent kept the time of day for ten years but somehow
manage to get in position to shut the oven off.

“I pulled the front cover and unplugged all the wires (taping them with black tape) to the oven timer.“

If the wires are simply pulled off the clock and taped off it will never work. This is because main power for the oven is going through the clock itself through a set of switch contacts that are inside of it. Try connecting the wires back to their original location then set the clock until it clicks into the manual position and see how it goes. If this fails to work then the switch contacts in the clock could be bad. There is a way to bypass the clock but it involves jumpering the wires together in a certain manner. Without a diagram
I wouldn’t be able to tell you which ones to jumper together to bypass the clock switches.
 
  #6  
Old 02-16-06, 07:44 PM
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Oops !

Gmaxx...

Actually - OOPS !

99% of the time when I take something apart I draw a diagram as to the original positions of everything removed. This time my attitude go the best of me and I have no idea where the wires go.

Before I took this irrational step, I tried to jiggle the knobs in every which way to get it to work and nothing helped.

Actually, I think I left the wires connected to the clock, I just unhooked the wires to the timer knobs - #2 & #3 below... I'll have to go look.

The oven has four knobs:

#1 Sets the temperature from 150 to 500 (broil)
#2 Sets the cook time start time
#3 Sets the cook length time
#4 is the clock with a timer - three hands - hour, minute, and timer

I really hate to buy a new oven because the rest of our kitchen is so outdated. The least expensive wall oven I found on the net was $375, plus a fortune to ship it.

I really appreciate the time you are taking to try and help.

Regards,

Tom
 
  #7  
Old 02-16-06, 07:53 PM
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Ok do you know if there is a diagram for the oven?
This diagram could be either burried in the console
where the controles are at. Or It could be glued to the outside of
unit someplace maybe even the back. See if you can locate something
I will see if I can help.
 

Last edited by Gmaxx; 02-17-06 at 08:06 AM.
  #8  
Old 02-17-06, 07:10 AM
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You are a Hero !!

I will certainly look !!

More thanks than you can imagine !!

Tom
 
  #9  
Old 02-17-06, 04:47 PM
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Done Deal !

Praise God !!

Here is the scoop:

I called an electrician friend and after about 40 minutes On the Phone he walked me through testing all the wires to see which did what.

End result is that we took a neutral wire that came from the breaker box, connected it to a hot wire from the "buss bar" in the oven and hooked them both to a post on the bake timer modual.

Boom! The oven works fine!!

Thank you all for your help and comments.

Enjoy your weekend,

T, a happy camper in Carolina
 
  #10  
Old 02-17-06, 05:35 PM
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Excellent..good thing that's all it was. A thermostat would be
expensive if it's even available.
 
  #11  
Old 02-17-06, 06:15 PM
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Thanks Again

Gmaxx -

Thanks again for the tip of bypassing the timer by jumping the wires!

Have a great weekend

T - now were are cooking again !
 
  #12  
Old 02-18-06, 05:22 PM
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Unhappy Spoke Too Soon!

Well...

The Pizza didn't turn out too well. The cheeze on the top was cooked, but
the dough was still raw!

The broiler heating element works fine, but the bottom heating element does not work at all.

Here is what I think:

The Thermostat knob on the oven controls all these functions:
** Oven: On / Off
** Broil or regular oven
- the dial goes from 150 to 450? for the oven
- then 450? to 500? for the broiler
- all using the same knob

The Thermostat module has five posts:
#1 - labeled "1" - is a dual post
- One black wire goes to a light that turns on when the oven Thermostat knob is turned on
- One black wire goes to the back right side of the oven
#2 - labeled "2" - a purple wire that goes to the back right side of the oven
#3 - labeled "3" - a red wire that goes to the back left side of the oven
#4 - labeled "L1" - a black wire goes to the back left wide of the oven
#5 - labeled "L2" an empty post -
my theory is that this post used to have a white wire from the electric box attached and was the mystery connector that was left over when I unplugged all the wires to the timer module
**** I had a good guess where they all went on the timer module, but there was one white wire connector left over
**** It seems that the left back side of the oven - wires - come from the electric box
**** And, the right back side of the oven - wires - go to the heating element(s) and the light
inside the oven.


Anyone want to take a guess if the extra white wire
goes to #5 "L2" listed above??

TIA,

Tom, broiling again, but only half baked !
 

Last edited by TTTTom; 02-18-06 at 05:32 PM.
  #13  
Old 02-18-06, 05:50 PM
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Did the bottom element work Ok when you
got it running yesterday? Or do you think it was only
the broiler that was working all along?
 
  #14  
Old 02-18-06, 05:54 PM
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Red face

Gmaxx ...

only the top element seemed to be working yesterday, I remember asking my wife if both the top and bottom elements got red when working.

the bottom never turned red yesterday

T
 
  #15  
Old 02-18-06, 06:09 PM
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Does the lower element get hot at all?
The reason I ask is because many times what they will do is run the bake element at full power by running the full 230 volts to it while at the same time running the broiler at half power by running it with 115 volts during bake. When they do this the broil element won’t get red hot (not enough voltage). If the bake element is getting hot at all there’s a chance that some connections going to the thermostat have been reversed.
Another thing you can do is actually run the unit on broil and make sure the broil element gets red hot. If the bake element gets red hot while on broil
then you know something has been reversed.
 
  #16  
Old 02-18-06, 06:14 PM
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Gmaxx..

I literally touched (with my fingers) the bake element tonight after 30 minutes of trying to bake the Pizza ... it was not hot at all - only hot enough from the ambient temperature of the heat of the broiler element...

I'll run the broiler element only to see if the bake element gets hot at all.

My electrician friend said (over the phone) that he didn't think the thermostat module should have any white wires connected to it...

But that empty post has me puzzled - do you think a thermostat module would have a white wire from the elec box??

Also ... all the wires to the thermostat module are just as they have always been ... except I don't know about the empty post -#5 - labeled "L2" - I can't remember if it ever had anything attached to it - when I pulled the wires to the timer the other day.

Thanks for your help,

T
 

Last edited by TTTTom; 02-18-06 at 06:34 PM.
  #17  
Old 02-18-06, 06:35 PM
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"but that empty post has me puzzled - do you think a thermostat module would have a white wire from the elec box??"

Its not unusual to see an unused terminal. Keep in mind the voltage between
the white wire and the red or black wire is going to only be 115 volts
not enough to bring an element to full power. This is a case where I would
check to see if the terminal at the thermostat thats suppose to have the bake element wire connected to is actually putting out 230 volts during bake. If it is then you could have a bad element or bad connection. If not then the thermostat could be bad.
 
  #18  
Old 02-18-06, 07:01 PM
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Unhappy

I guess I was thinking that the white wire to the empy post would complete the circuit to make the bake element work.

Seems that my next step is to:

#1 Turn off the power at the breaker box, Open up the panel
#2 Pull the wires on the thermostat (- one by one - and then reconnect after the test) turn on the power

Use my meter to see which wire goes to
- the Broiler
repeat #1 & #2
- the bake element
repeat #1 & #2
- the elec box
#3 Then while the oven is powered on - use the meter to test the wires for each of the elements while the oven is turned on to: Bake and then Broil - looking for 230 volts to each.

From my post above - there are four posts that have black wires attached
my theory is the wires go to:
- the inside oven light
- the broiler element
- the bake element
- the elec box

There is a bunch of insulation in the area where the wires go to the back of the oven, but even if I pulled it out - I would probably just see the holes that the wires go into.

Gmaxx - thanks again for all your help. I won't be doing any more baking tonight and we have a pot-lunch at church tomorrow - so we usually eat both lunch and dinner at the PL. Hence, probably no baking tomorrow either.

So, I'm going down to the house and then bed!

Take care my friend,

T - half baked again! - business as usual
 
  #19  
Old 02-18-06, 07:14 PM
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"There is a bunch of insulation in the area where the wires go to the back of the oven, but even if I pulled it out - I would probably just see the holes that the wires go into."

If you decide to pull it out
Look for a schematic diagram.
Later.
 
  #20  
Old 02-19-06, 05:25 PM
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Red face

Gmaxx,

Found the wiring diagram - I pulled the stove out and it was glued on top!

From Elec Box:
L1 Black to "L1" on Thermostat Module
L2 / Red to Red on Buss Bar to #1 on Timer
N / Neutral from elec box to White on Buss Bar to #2 on timer

From Timer
#3 on Timer goes to "L2" on Thermostat Module which goes to the Broiler

From Thermostat Module
"L2" / Yellow to Broiler (also connected to #3 on Timer)
#2 / Blue to Broiler
#3 / Red to Bake
#1 / Black to Bake

Right now the Yellow Broiler wire is joined with the Red wire from the Red Buss Bar
and both are connected to the #2 on the Timer
---> the Broiler works and the Bake element does not

Question: How do I bypass the timer and get both the Broiler and the Bake elements to work?

TIA,

Tom
 
  #21  
Old 02-19-06, 05:57 PM
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Ok Lets try something first before bypassing the timer.
Now that you have the wiring diagram see if you can
connect the wires back to the timer the way they were originally connected. Both the timer and thermostat use numbers or letters by each of the terminals. Make sure that the proper color wire goes to its corresponding terminal as shown on the diagram. Double check the thermostat also to make sure everything matches. When you’re sure everything is connected properly
then turn the dial on the clock until it reaches the manual position then turn a bit further to get it to click in position. Give this a shot.
 
  #22  
Old 02-19-06, 06:07 PM
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Gmaxx,

This makes good sense. No reason to get tricky if the regular way works!

Actually I think the "Man" manual setting is on the Timer module
the timer module has two dials
#1 When to start baking
#2 How long to bake

But... I'll try what you said.

I'll be back in a while .. don't wait up - LOL

Tom
 
  #23  
Old 02-19-06, 06:46 PM
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Talking

I am almost afraid to say it worked!
But it works - both Broil and Bake elements!!

I reconnected all the wires - except -
the white and black going to the clock.
The clock wires were all taped up nice and neat
and I figured that if the "Man" setting was on the
timer, why add another unless function like a
clock that hasn't worked in years and
the dial only turns the minute timer - it will not
move the clock hands, regardless of pushing the knob in
or jiggling it.

So, right now both elements work - they get red hot.

One more thing: the Bake element has a metal
"support" to hold it off the bottom of the oven...
but there is only one, the other has been missing for
years. There should be one on the left side
and one on the right side.

Does this matter - that the element on one side lays
flat on the bottom of the oven? If so...

Can I get just a support from a parts place?

You have been most kind with all your help -
especially your last comment to "try this first" by
hooking it up the original way.

More thanks than I can express.

Tom
 
  #24  
Old 02-19-06, 07:04 PM
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“I am almost afraid to say it worked!
But it works - both Broil and Bake elements!!”

At least you didn’t pay a service man to come
out and turn a knob for you. I’ve had it happen
many times. That’s why I persisted on the clock
settings. By the way before you call it fixed set the oven temp and make sure the thermostat cycles on and off.

“Does this matter - that the element on one side lays flat on the bottom of the oven?”

It’s not good that the element lies on the bottom.
Usually the original supports are nothing more
than a piece of wire or sheet metal. They are not
sold as a separate part. You should be able to fabricate something out of a heavy piece of wire or some sort of other metal to keep it propped up.
 
  #25  
Old 02-20-06, 07:07 AM
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Smile

Gmaxx,

I made a cup of coffee and watched the thermostat cycle
the element on and off (red, not red, red, not red , etc.)

Should I try to find galvanized metal - or -
I have a bunch of 1" by 1" "L" shaped
shiny metal "shelf brackets" with two screw holes in them.

- or - I have a bunch of heavy "ground wire" -
copper wire with a green cover - I could strip off the
green cover - carefully loop it around the element -
producing two "feet".

My concern is that the new metal
touching the element may burn it out in that spot.

Gmaxx, thanks again for sharing your expertise!

Regards,

Tom
 
  #26  
Old 02-20-06, 09:57 AM
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“My concern is that the new metal
touching the element may burn it out in that spot.”

It shouldn’t cause any problem. There is nothing really special about what the factory uses. However I don’t know about using copper I would stick to using steel. The brackets you mentioned should work if they can be made to fit. There should be a metal support holding up the broil element. This should give you an idea as to what material they used.
 
  #27  
Old 02-20-06, 10:46 AM
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Gmaxx - you are a good Man !

...T
 
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