PLEASE HELP!!!! TESTING THE THERMISTOR and HEATING ELEMENT

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  #1  
Old 02-27-06, 07:44 PM
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PLEASE HELP!!!! TESTING THE THERMISTOR and HEATING ELEMENT

I am ready to toss my Kitchenaid KUDS01SSDL in the alley...For well over a year now the damn thing has not worked. Rinse only light blinking!!!! Anyway...I finally found this site and others thank you very much. I've taken the dishwasher out and replaced the thermostat, control board, etc.

Upon testing the element when isolated I got a reading of 9.1 ohms!!!! Is this thing bad????

Upon testing the thermistor for continuity I recieved an OL...also I put it under my hot water in the reading never changed.

I have not taken the time to run the diagonostic cycle since I don't know if these parts are bad!!!!

I hope that someone can tell me how to test these and if they are bad based on the readings I got!!!!
 
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  #2  
Old 02-27-06, 08:25 PM
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I donít see anything on that model please double check it. Take it directly from the model serial tag.
Thanks.
 
  #3  
Old 02-28-06, 06:18 AM
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Unfortunately there is no tag!!!

Unfortunately there is no tag...
 
  #4  
Old 02-28-06, 06:31 AM
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Model No. KUDS01DLSS

The model number is: KUDS01DLSS
 
  #5  
Old 02-28-06, 07:29 AM
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ďUnfortunately there is no tag...
The model number is: KUDS01DLSSĒ

The reason I asked is because I would like to take
a look at the tech sheet if possible before trying to give you any advise on this. I have access to them but there are over a half a dozen KUDS01DLSS models. Many of which use different sheets.
Take a look and see if you can locate the tech sheet for this unit. Itís usually either behind the lower access panel tucked away somewhere or it may be behind the main front panel itself. When you have it look for a 7 digit part number somewhere that starts with 853.

Thanks.
 
  #6  
Old 02-28-06, 08:36 AM
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I can't find squat on this [email protected]$%**& thing!!!! I am tired of jackin with this damn thing!!!! Had it apart...just went to the appliance parts store and ran into two guys that laughed when I told them what the part was for.

They told me there is no way to check the thermistor...

When I got home I tried running the diagnostic cycle and the dishwasher won't respond at all. Even after filling it with hot water!!!!!!
 
  #7  
Old 02-28-06, 11:23 AM
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“I can't find squat on this [email protected]$%**& thing!!!! I am tired of jackin with this damn thing!!!!”

Relax I’m not the enemy here. Now those guys that laughed at you well…..
I think you’ve been the victim of junk information rather than the product
itself.

Ok first off you asked about the thermistor resistance.
It should be 48-52k ohms at 77 degrees and 12-13k ohms at
140 degrees. Be sure you have your meter set on the right resistance scale to make the measurement otherwise it will read as an open (or bad) component. Do I think this might be it? Not necessarily but go ahead and check it anyway. Be sure to disconnect it before you take the resistance reading of the thermistor. By the way the resistance reading you got on the element is about right.
 

Last edited by Gmaxx; 02-28-06 at 11:40 AM.
  #8  
Old 02-28-06, 12:38 PM
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Thanks!!!

Can't thank you enough!!! Sorry for venting on here!!! It's just that when one doesn't have a ton of experience working on something it can get damn frustrating!!!! And it's funny how everything you read labels these appliances as overrated to say the least!!!!!

And it seems like the only place you can find genuinely nice people who aren't looking for every chance they have to bend you over...

OK, Now when I disconnect the power and then power it back up. First the "add a dish" light starts to flash then within a couple of seconds the "Normal" led starts to flash.

Any ideas!!! I did replace the control board a while back. Since that is what the fac. auth. service tech. said it was. Yeah right!!!!!!
 
  #9  
Old 02-28-06, 12:53 PM
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For now letís forget about what the other guys have said and letís try to take this a step at a time.
First off was you able to get the reading on the thermistor?
 
  #10  
Old 02-28-06, 01:03 PM
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Reading

The reading I got was on a 200K scale; 48.6. Which should equal 48,600?!?! Right!?!?!?
 
  #11  
Old 02-28-06, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by aasment
The reading I got was on a 200K scale; 48.6. Which should equal 48,600?!?! Right!?!?!?
Yep you got it. Ok so we know now that the items you were originally concerned about are good. Ok earlier you said that the rinse only light has been blinking. I remember getting an update sheet from whirlpool about this so I went and looked it up. There were a lot of people misdiagnosing this as being a control problem when actually there were two other things that was causing it. The first was over voltage. If the voltage were to go above 125 vac it could cause this sort of thing. They updated control to make up for this. However since you already have replaced yours you probably already have the updated version of this control. But just for good measure I would check your line to see where it’s reading at. The next is that there could very well be a shorted pad on the keyboard itself. I would like to have you check the keypad so I will be back later so I can get the all the info I need so we can do it correctly.

Since you were unable to locate a model tag on the unit please list the names
of the buttons on the keyboard.
Thanks
 

Last edited by Gmaxx; 02-28-06 at 01:44 PM.
  #12  
Old 02-28-06, 03:30 PM
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Thanks Again

First of all just like to say thanks, here are the keys from left to right!!

Baked On Cookware, Normal, Light China, Quick Clean-up, Rinse Only, High Temp Scrub, Sani Rinse, Energy Saver Dry, Four Hour Delay.

The voltage reading I got was 122.2-123.1!!!!!
 
  #13  
Old 02-28-06, 04:20 PM
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Ok the first thing to do is to put the unit in diagnostic mode. Push High temp scrub Ė energy saver dry - high temp scrub - energy saver dry in sequence. All I want to check at this point is the LED displays lights themselves. All of the LEDs should light including the two digit number display if it has one. Each number display digit normally has 7 separate segments per digit. So let me know if everything lights. Make sure the unit is not running and make sure the door is closed.
 
  #14  
Old 02-28-06, 05:12 PM
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Sorry for the delay in this response!!!! I powered the unit up and then the "add a dish" led flashed.

Once I pressed the sequence you suggested the normal led flashed.

That was the only led that flashed!!!

Thanks again!!!
 
  #15  
Old 02-28-06, 07:50 PM
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Ok that’s not normal, when you first start the diagnostic cycle the first thing it’s suppose to do is illuminate and test all of the LEDs. It’s starting to become evident that you have a bad keypad/console (more than likely a shorted keypad). Let’s see if we can identify any of the keys that may be at fault. Locate the ribbon connector that comes from the keypad and connects to the controller.
It should be a 13 or 14 pin connector. It is referred to as the P1 connector. Check and see if can spot any of the numbers on the plastic connector or any labeling on the controller circuit board itself. Sometimes they only label the first pin or pin 1. It may even be tiny raised numbers on the plastic connector on the ribbon cable coming from the console keypad. Sometimes they will
mark one side of the ribbon cable with a colored strip to denote pin 1. The whole point
is to identify which is the first and last pin.
 
  #16  
Old 02-28-06, 08:32 PM
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Thanks have to get it tomarrow...Time to go to work!!
 
  #17  
Old 03-01-06, 10:12 AM
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OK I've found the ribbon and the point at which it connects to the board!!! One side is labeled 1 the other 14...
 
  #18  
Old 03-01-06, 11:35 AM
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Ok let’s try a test run on a key that is suspected to be ok.
Let’s try the high temp scrub button. First disconnect the
keyboard connector from the controller board.
If you have a digital meter see if have a diode test range.
It should be with the rest of the resistance ranges and may use
a diode symbol (an arrow with a line going across its point).
Connect the negative lead of your meter to pin 4 of the connector
and the positive to pin 11. There may be a series of bare metal spots on the
side of the plastic connector that you can use to make your connection to it.
Take note of the reading and the take note of it again with the high temp
scrub button pressed in.
 
  #19  
Old 03-01-06, 12:46 PM
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Sorry, I had to get one of other testers. Then charge the batteries...Anyway I got no reading at all the meter did nothing. I even tried to switch the probes and still got nothing!!!
 
  #20  
Old 03-01-06, 02:59 PM
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Did you double check the meter ?
If you cant get a reading with the meter set for checking resistance while the two probes are connecter to each other.
Check the fuse inside the meter..
Most if not all meters have fuses inside.


Some info on using a meter
http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/multimtr.htm
 
  #21  
Old 03-01-06, 03:01 PM
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A few other questions,
Whats the make and model of the meter you are using? And what type of
battery does it use? Does it have a diode test? Were you able to find a good connection
on the harness plug?
 

Last edited by Gmaxx; 03-01-06 at 03:11 PM.
  #22  
Old 03-01-06, 03:45 PM
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The tester is a Micronta(Radio Shack) model no. 22-185A. It uses 4 AA's. It does have a diode test. I think I had a good connection. I made the connection on the side of the plug that connects to the circuit board...the only thing is that my probes where a little thick so had to flatten them a little to get them to fit. I did do a couple of tests on other things to make sure the tester was working fine.
 
  #23  
Old 03-01-06, 04:05 PM
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Ok lets try this again but instead of diode test try using the
highest setting on the resistance scale and see what kind of reading you get.
In addition to the two terminals I gave you can also try to test the energy
saver dry you will need to connect the + lead to 11 and the - to
number 6. Test it in the same manner I gave you in the earlier post only difference
is you will be pressing the energy saver dry.
 
  #24  
Old 03-01-06, 04:32 PM
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OK I tested it the same way as before with my other tester on the highest resistance setting. Nothing testing both sets of contacts. Now, when I tested 6-11 on the diode setting, when I pressed the energy saver I got a reading of .812. The meter flashes 3.0 when it's waiting for a test.
 
  #25  
Old 03-01-06, 05:03 PM
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Ok use the diode check and keep your + lead on 11 and put the Ėlead on
number 5 and this time use the sani rinse button and give me a before and
after reading on this one.
 
  #26  
Old 03-01-06, 05:22 PM
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Button depressed: .821 undepressed: Nothing
 
  #27  
Old 03-01-06, 08:07 PM
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Ok good deal now we have an idea how they are normally
suppose to test. Alright now its time to check the rest of them.
I will just give you a list then go through and check all of the buttons. Just check them like you did the other two. Check them without pressing the button first. If you get a reading without pressing the button then you have a shorted keypad. If you dont
get a reading when pressing the button then that key is no good.

A few of these buttons may not exist on your model.
.+ lead................- lead
Pin 11--------------3 Soak & Scour
Pin 11--------------4 High Temp Scrub
Pin 11--------------5 Sani Rinse
Pin 11--------------6 Energy Saver Dry
Pin 12--------------2 Cancel / Drain
Pin 12--------------3 Four Hour Delay
Pin 12--------------4 Start
Pin 12--------------5 Rinse Only
Pin 12--------------6 Quick Clean-up
Pin 13--------------3 Baked On Cookware
Pin 13--------------4 Pots & Pans / Heavy
Pin 13--------------5 Normal
Pin 13--------------6 Light China
 

Last edited by Gmaxx; 03-01-06 at 08:23 PM.
  #28  
Old 03-02-06, 09:25 AM
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OK Here it is...ALL of the sequences you gave me checked out fine!!!! There were three that didn't apply though. Thanks again
 
  #29  
Old 03-02-06, 12:17 PM
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Ok nothing obvious is showing up yet but I have
had a few cases where a continuity test on these had misled
me into thinking that the key pad was ok. The failure may be
an intermittent one.
By the way here is the update that I was reading earlier.
Focus on the last part of it.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c264/Genx65/Update1.jpg

There are a few LED diodes that remain and if any of them are
shorted could cause problems. There will be no buttons on this test.
Check these in one direction then switch your probes and check again.
Pin 1 to 11
pin 1 to 12
pin 1 to 13
pin 2 to 11
One of these LEDs may not exist on your model and would show
open (no reading). But Iím looking for shorts here. This would show up
as a reading no matter which way you connected the probes. It should
only show a reading in one direction

If nothing abnormal shows up then try running the D/W through a light
china wash cycle a see what happens.
 
  #30  
Old 03-02-06, 01:24 PM
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As far as i could tell I got no abnormal readings...With the + on 11 the - on 2 = .825, + on 12 the -on 1 = .825, and + on 11 the - on 1 = .815!!! Then when I went to start it on "Light China". I powered it up and the "add a dish" LED lit up, then when I pressed "Light China" the Normal LED went on and it did nothing!!!!
 
  #31  
Old 03-02-06, 02:41 PM
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"As far as i could tell I got no abnormal readings...With the + on 11 the - on 2 = .825, + on 12 the -on 1 = .825, and + on 11 the - on 1 = .815!!! "

Ok that looks fine. You must not have got anything from 1-13.
These LEDs I had you test are hooked in with the
same areas the switch pads themselves are. So a
shorted one would cause problems.

"Then when I went to start it on "Light China". I powered it up and the "add a dish" LED lit up, then when I pressed "Light China" the Normal LED went on and it did nothing!!!!"

Ok just to verify, Was this the same thing it was doing before you replaced
the electronic controller?
 

Last edited by Gmaxx; 03-02-06 at 02:57 PM.
  #32  
Old 03-02-06, 03:08 PM
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Sorry, but to be honest I don't remember it's been so long. I believe there was an LED flashing but if I told you I knew which one I'd be lying!!!!
 
  #33  
Old 03-02-06, 04:39 PM
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"if I told you I knew which one I'd be lying!!!!"


That’s alright; if you’re not sure the information would only slow the efforts down not help. It can be tough enough to try and diagnose equipment over the internet as it is let alone if the info you are starting with is bad. This may be one of those times like I said earlier where testing the console with a meter can be deceptive. I’m not 100% convinced that the key panel is good. Especially when the normal light comes on after you select a different cycle. It’s as if the normal key is sticking and then changing the cycle when you release the other cycle button. In fact that gives me idea. Reset the machine and this time press and hold in the light china wash cycle button. You might try this with a couple of different cycles (any of them except normal). I want to see what sort of response you get. What could happen is that it would light the led for that cycle and shut off or shut off and cause the rise light to blink. If something like this occurs then it would just further confirm my suspicions. If you didnt throw it away you could also try and hook the old control board back up and see if the operation is the same.
In the mean time I am going to do a bit of info searching of my own and get back to you.

later.
 
  #34  
Old 03-05-06, 07:23 PM
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After a little extra research it looks like my suspicions are pretty much confirmed at this point.
Looks like youíre going to need a keypad which is basically part of the console itself.
 
  #35  
Old 03-06-06, 08:51 AM
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I can't thank you enough... now if you'd be kind enough to tell me what parts I'm going to need to ask for at the supply house. If poss. the part no.'s would be even better!!! Do I have to order indv. parts or can I get a whole console??? Thanks Again
 
  #36  
Old 03-06-06, 09:31 AM
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You have to get the console itself. Itís just the outside part of the console with the keypad. It comes as one piece. No other parts are included with it. I could give you a part number but the model you gave me does not have the two digit suffix code number at the end it. An example would be KUDS01DLSS00 or KUDS01DLSS01.
What color is the panel? Is this a stainless steel unit?
 
  #37  
Old 03-06-06, 02:46 PM
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Yes it is the SS unit!!
 
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