Refrigerator evaporator fan running in defrost mode

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Old 11-02-07, 08:42 AM
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Refrigerator evaporator fan running in defrost mode

I have a 19 eighty-something Magic Chef fridge by Maytag. It won't cool at all and I've been trying to figure it out for quite some time now.

One thing I'm still scratching my head over is the fact that the evaporator fan runs only while in defrost mode. When I turn it back to cooling mode, the condenser fan and compressor start and the evaporator fan goes off every time. Can this possibly be normal? Could it have anything to do with the cause of the non-cooling problem?
 
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Old 11-02-07, 02:19 PM
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Hi Chad:

It's not normal and it probably has everything to with the no cooling problem. Have always owned this fridge? Has someone worked on it recently? Is there a service sheet like maybe behind the front toeplate? Can you post the model#?

A box that age probably does not have electronic controls, it probably has an electromechanical timer; very simple wiring circuit.
 
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Old 11-05-07, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by daddyjohn View Post
Hi Chad:

It's not normal and it probably has everything to with the no cooling problem. Have always owned this fridge? Has someone worked on it recently? Is there a service sheet like maybe behind the front toeplate? Can you post the model#?

A box that age probably does not have electronic controls, it probably has an electromechanical timer; very simple wiring circuit.

Yes, I've always owned it and nobody has ever worked on it as best I remember. I know for a fact it wasn't worked on between the time it last worked properly and now. It was in storage for about a year or so and when we plugged it back up, it was like this.


The model # is RB23GN-3PW and on the back is a Pictorial Wiring Diagram, Schematic Wiring Diagram, Refrigerant Flow and replacement parts. I don't see any kind of electronic control involved and the defrost timer appears to be electromechanical.
 
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Old 11-05-07, 03:12 PM
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When you say no cooling I think you mean the box isn't cooling but the freezer coil is getting cold? From your description the only thing that makes sense is the switches in the defrost timer must have gone haywire. A new timer is about $23. You'll also want to take off the back cover and see how dirty the coil underneath the box is. Those are actually pretty decent fridges. Any chance you can take a picture of the wiring schematic and post it? Try replacing the timer and see if that cures it. Let us know how you make out.
 
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Old 11-05-07, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by daddyjohn View Post
When you say no cooling I think you mean the box isn't cooling but the freezer coil is getting cold? From your description the only thing that makes sense is the switches in the defrost timer must have gone haywire. A new timer is about $23. You'll also want to take off the back cover and see how dirty the coil underneath the box is. Those are actually pretty decent fridges. Any chance you can take a picture of the wiring schematic and post it? Try replacing the timer and see if that cures it. Let us know how you make out.
Well, I don't know how much more of the story you'll need but I'll go further...

The evaporator coils aren't getting cold at all. The compressor does sound like it's trying to start up. Most of the time it runs for a few seconds and clicks off. Then, after a few tries, it will usually keep running... or at least I can hear a little bit of sound coming from it and it has a little vibration. It's not as obvious as it is on our other fridge. When it starts up I can hear some circulation in the lines so I assume the freon hasn't leaked out anywhere. I've replaced the starter relay... no change. I've checked the 3 contacts on the compressor for proper resistance and that seems fine. I've checked for leakage to ground from the compressor and as far as I can tell, that's ok.

From reading all these posts, some of these symptoms seem to be pointing to a compressor problem but the thing that is just too wierd to me not to be a factor is this backwards operation of the evaporator fan. That is the one thing that I remember working on now. When I first checked into all this, the evaporator fan wasn't working at all and the motor was frozen up. Took that apart and got it working again. But I didn't take that out until I plugged the refrigerator in after the storage and it wasn't doing anything.

I'll be glad to post a picture of the schematics if you can tell me how to do that. It says under my posting rules that I may not post attachments.
 
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Old 11-05-07, 04:21 PM
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My posting rules say the same thing, I'm not sure what that's about.

Hmmm.... I was wondering if there was another issue going on. Does the freezer coil get wet at all? I imagine that's probably hard for you to determine because the coil is in the freezer floor and difficult to get to. It sounds like the compressor is bad as in not pumping. No air circulation over the freezer coil means hardly any load on the refrigeration system> the freezer coil would frost up pronto if the compressor were pumping. You probably got 20 years out of it which isn't bad considering the junk being sold today.
 
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Old 11-05-07, 06:30 PM
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Buy yourself a Kill-Watt test meter. They are quite reasonable and these will tell you amp draw or kw draw or kwh timed tests, and you can see if when you THINK your compressor is running you can see if the wattage being consumed is in range of what it should be. You can also see if when you think it is in the defrost mode that it indeed is sending juice through the element.

I know that on typical 18 cubic feet units the power draw when compressor is running is 150 (your older unit may be somewhat higher. My fridge at home is in the 350 range) give or take a little and when in defrost about 450 give or take.

These are handy meters for testing any load draws with. Just like plugging a POCO electric meter into your wall outlet. Then you plug the refrigerator into IT.
 
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Old 11-06-07, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by daddyjohn View Post
My posting rules say the same thing, I'm not sure what that's about.

Hmmm.... I was wondering if there was another issue going on. Does the freezer coil get wet at all? I imagine that's probably hard for you to determine because the coil is in the freezer floor and difficult to get to. It sounds like the compressor is bad as in not pumping. No air circulation over the freezer coil means hardly any load on the refrigeration system> the freezer coil would frost up pronto if the compressor were pumping. You probably got 20 years out of it which isn't bad considering the junk being sold today.
No, it doesn't get wet or cold. I've had the freezer floor taken out for quite some time now.
 
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Old 11-06-07, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ecman51` View Post
Buy yourself a Kill-Watt test meter. They are quite reasonable and these will tell you amp draw or kw draw or kwh timed tests, and you can see if when you THINK your compressor is running you can see if the wattage being consumed is in range of what it should be. You can also see if when you think it is in the defrost mode that it indeed is sending juice through the element.

I know that on typical 18 cubic feet units the power draw when compressor is running is 150 (your older unit may be somewhat higher. My fridge at home is in the 350 range) give or take a little and when in defrost about 450 give or take.

These are handy meters for testing any load draws with. Just like plugging a POCO electric meter into your wall outlet. Then you plug the refrigerator into IT.
That's an interesting thought. Can I also test that with a multimeter? Is there a state the compressor could be in that would make the way it's acting make sense? I mean, could it be in the start mode only due to a wiring glitch and never in run or something like that?

When it starts or tries to start, I can hear circulation. Does that mean the freon is there? And if it is, why would it not be cooling?
 
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Old 11-06-07, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by chadmw7 View Post
That's an interesting thought. Can I also test that with a multimeter?
No. Multimeters read volts and ohms mainly. Not watts and amps.

Is there a state the compressor could be in that would make the way it's acting make sense? I mean, could it be in the start mode only due to a wiring glitch and never in run or something like that?
I've personally never had a call for such a thing. But I am not an appliance man per se, making a dozen house calls a day, either. But yours -IS- doing it. To me, this ranks up there with someone saying that all 4 stop and go lights turned green at the same time. Dj (appliance repair poster guy) mentioned something going haywire with the stat? maybe and it would seem something is somehow making contacts it normally would not be. A wiring diagram sure would come in handy, as that could cut down on the guesswork and one could better theorize where this criss-cross problem could be happening.

When it starts or tries to start, I can hear circulation. Does that mean the freon is there? And if it is, why would it not be cooling?
You are getting into an area now dealing with freon amount, pressures maybe on the high and low sides, and ?. Guys over in the a/c forum maybe could even answer this better than I. (An area I never got into as one must be state certified in working with refrigerant.) My own friend's fridge that seems to cool perfectly normal gurgles a lot in such a mannor. My house window a/c does that after it shuts down (it to works good). Another old lady has a reliable fridge and I was there one day doing other work (I think on her furnace) and I heard this noise and she says hers has made that obnoxious gurgling for years, and the thing works fine.
 
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Old 11-06-07, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ecman51` View Post
No. Multimeters read volts and ohms mainly. Not watts and amps.



I've personally never had a call for such a thing. But I am not an appliance man per se, making a dozen house calls a day, either. But yours -IS- doing it. To me, this ranks up there with someone saying that all 4 stop and go lights turned green at the same time. Dj (appliance repair poster guy) mentioned something going haywire with the stat? maybe and it would seem something is somehow making contacts it normally would not be. A wiring diagram sure would come in handy, as that could cut down on the guesswork and one could better theorize where this criss-cross problem could be happening.



You are getting into an area now dealing with freon amount, pressures maybe on the high and low sides, and ?. Guys over in the a/c forum maybe could even answer this better than I. (An area I never got into as one must be state certified in working with refrigerant.) My own friend's fridge that seems to cool perfectly normal gurgles a lot in such a mannor. My house window a/c does that after it shuts down (it to works good). Another old lady has a reliable fridge and I was there one day doing other work (I think on her furnace) and I heard this noise and she says hers has made that obnoxious gurgling for years, and the thing works fine.
Here are the links to the schematics, etc...

Wiring Schematic
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...7037400&size=o

Pictorial Schematic:
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...6192569&size=o

Refrigerant Flow:
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...6192743&size=o

Yes, it seems to me that the gurgling would be a good thing. If the lines were silent I would come nearer thinking that either there was nothing in them or they were completely blocked.
 
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Old 11-07-07, 08:58 AM
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It appears to me from diagram 1 that the only way this can be happening is if defrost timer terminals 1,2 and 4 are being bridged in certain combinations they normally would not be, in order to send both current to the evaporator fan and defrost element at same time. I can't see where else you can get such continuations of current outside that defrost timer. I would therefore have to suspect it, IMO. I would love to bust it open to see how it is doing this.

Daddyjohn,

Do you concur or have other opinion?
 
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Old 11-07-07, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ecman51` View Post
It appears to me from diagram 1 that the only way this can be happening is if defrost timer terminals 1,2 and 4 are being bridged in certain combinations they normally would not be, in order to send both current to the evaporator fan and defrost element at same time. I can't see where else you can get such continuations of current outside that defrost timer. I would therefore have to suspect it, IMO. I would love to bust it open to see how it is doing this.

Daddyjohn,

Do you concur or have other opinion?
I agree with you although I'm certainly not an expert at this. (obviously). What you're saying makes common sense to me. My thoughts at this point are...

1)I have seen somewhere that some units are made so that the evaporator fan only comes on when the freezer is below a certain temp. I don't know if that applies to mine and even if it does I'm not sure why the fan would be on during defrost. I do see a temp control in the schematic connected to the defrost timer but it appears to only be connected to the ice maker(not an expert with schematics either)

2)If the defrost timer is screwy as we suspect, can this even cause my compressor to be doing what it's doing?

3)Can I check this timer before I go out and buy another one? I guess I could test voltage on the defrost timer if I can get it in my head when it's supposed to do what. If it's not working right, I'll just tear into it myself and I'll send pics if you like.

Where does that cycle timer next to the defrost timer fit into all this?

What do you think should happen next?
 
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Old 11-07-07, 04:44 PM
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I have to re-review your post about the compressor business. From my memory I thought you said that when the compressor tries to run, and you hear noises down there, the evaporator fan does not work. And when the defrost comes on,. the evaporator fan starts up. A completely backward scenario.

The only common denominator wiring/terminals I could see was at the defrost timer. That other cycle timer?: You have some ice cream machine and also dispenser in your unit and this is adding to all the wiring. On my first review, I did not see how this would come into play with your problem. I will have to re-review. But what I remember on my first look and my post-back to you was that the hot incoming wiring on the left side of the schematic that all winds up at the neutral return wire on the right, converges over by the defrost element thermostat area, and from my analysis, it looked like if contacts got bridged wrong in the defrost timer, that your problem could only be explained at this area of the schematic. That was my opinion. I thought maybe Dj or some of the others like Doug or Jeff might want to weigh in.

Unfortunately, for the DIY'er or handyman, or even a pro for that matter - once you bought an electrical replacement part, you can not return it if out of the package. Pros have the advantage that they can just try a spare one out of their van/truck and see. We don't have that privilege. Sometimes though with me, in the multi-rentals business, I can go to some other rental with a like-unit (appliance) and temporarily steal one and see. I did that last year with a timer on a dryer. The other rental house that had the same unit was only 75 feet away - and it was indeed the timer. But nothing gets a person more mad to waste their money on a part not needed. And -I- don't want to be responsible for you doing that either.

If I were you, I'd get a copy of your pic 1 schematic, go to the appliance parts store when you know a tech is there and show him and have HIM commit. Say you'll buy their timer if he feels that, as I did, that this seems the logical culprit.

Other than that, or getting other opinions here at this appliances forum, I would go to our electrical forum where there are electrical pros there and have them come here and see your diagram and tell them and have THEM review this thread. I think they will enjoy this challenge, quite frankly.
 
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Old 11-08-07, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by ecman51` View Post
I have to re-review your post about the compressor business. From my memory I thought you said that when the compressor tries to run, and you hear noises down there, the evaporator fan does not work. And when the defrost comes on,. the evaporator fan starts up. A completely backward scenario.

The only common denominator wiring/terminals I could see was at the defrost timer. That other cycle timer?: You have some ice cream machine and also dispenser in your unit and this is adding to all the wiring. On my first review, I did not see how this would come into play with your problem. I will have to re-review. But what I remember on my first look and my post-back to you was that the hot incoming wiring on the left side of the schematic that all winds up at the neutral return wire on the right, converges over by the defrost element thermostat area, and from my analysis, it looked like if contacts got bridged wrong in the defrost timer, that your problem could only be explained at this area of the schematic. That was my opinion. I thought maybe Dj or some of the others like Doug or Jeff might want to weigh in.

Unfortunately, for the DIY'er or handyman, or even a pro for that matter - once you bought an electrical replacement part, you can not return it if out of the package. Pros have the advantage that they can just try a spare one out of their van/truck and see. We don't have that privilege. Sometimes though with me, in the multi-rentals business, I can go to some other rental with a like-unit (appliance) and temporarily steal one and see. I did that last year with a timer on a dryer. The other rental house that had the same unit was only 75 feet away - and it was indeed the timer. But nothing gets a person more mad to waste their money on a part not needed. And -I- don't want to be responsible for you doing that either.

If I were you, I'd get a copy of your pic 1 schematic, go to the appliance parts store when you know a tech is there and show him and have HIM commit. Say you'll buy their timer if he feels that, as I did, that this seems the logical culprit.

Other than that, or getting other opinions here at this appliances forum, I would go to our electrical forum where there are electrical pros there and have them come here and see your diagram and tell them and have THEM review this thread. I think they will enjoy this challenge, quite frankly.
Am I reading this wrong or does the hot wire come through the cycle timer before it gets to the defrost timer?
 
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Old 11-08-07, 02:22 PM
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I've never seen this model before however you just have to trace the schematic to see what does what and when. Notice that the main schematic is the circuitry for when the ice cream maker is NOT operating. So starting with the hot wire, you'll see that it comes down and powers several circuits [divider heater, water disp, ice disp, and so on] then it swings around the ice maker interlock switch and then to a terminal on the ice cream maker's temp control bypass switch. The hot leg leaves that same terminal, goes up to the icemaker interlock switch and then on to the icemaker. The hot leg also goes THRU the temp control bypass switch [from the top to the NC side], and on to the temp control. Power then goes thru the temp control [when it's closed] and on to the defrost timer. In the refrigeration cycle the middle and bottom contacts inside the defrost timer are made. The hot leg continues on to power the condensor fan motor and the compressor circuit. There are some things that we need to backtrack and take notice of. The defrost timer motor only runs when the temp control is closed. This is called "accumulative defrost", the defrost timer only accumulates time during the refrigeration mode. During defrost, the contacts inside the timer shift from middle and bottom to middle and top. The freezer fan, condensor fan and compressor are shut off and the defrost heater is turned on. As it defrosts, the evaporator coil warms up to the point where the defrost thermostat opens. The defrost timer continues to run for a drain off and then re-switches it's contacts to the refrigeration mode. However, the freezer fan does not restart until the evaporator coil is cold enough to reclose the defrost thermostat [typically, a defrost thermostat might open at 45 degrees and reclose at 28 degrees]. So, in normal operation, the freezer fan should not be on during the defrost mode and it will not run during the refrigeration mode unless the evaporator coil is cold enough to close the defrost thermostat. In the ice cream making mode three things happen. The temp contol bypass switch moves so that top to NO is now made and the NC side is open. All this does is bypass the temp control and the defrost timer to keep the compressor, condensor fan, and freezer fan running even if the temp control opens. It also prevents a defrost. You can imagine that you want the refrigeration to stay on until the ice cream is done. The temp control bypass switch also feeds power to the cycle timer interlock switch. The interlock switch closes which does 2 things. It powers the cycle timer motor which keeps it running until the end of the ice cream making cycle. It also powers the switch atbove the cycle timer motor which is closed during the ice cream operation. That provides a circuit to run te auger motor. So, my guess is ice ream is made in the ice cube hopper.

I can see why you would want to salvage this fridge. Did you ever make ice cream in it? How did it work out? First thing to to is figure out the compressor. If it's not running and freezing, the rest doesn't matter. How long will the compressor run? The evaporator coil should start to frost fairly quicly, say within 10 minutes. We can see now why the freezer fan is not runnig in the refrigeration mode. But it should be running during the defrost mode, it's either miswired or the timer cintacts are malfunctioning. Trace the wiring for the fan very closely and be sure it checks out before condeming the timer.
 
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Old 11-09-07, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by daddyjohn View Post
I've never seen this model before however you just have to trace the schematic to see what does what and when. Notice that the main schematic is the circuitry for when the ice cream maker is NOT operating. So starting with the hot wire, you'll see that it comes down and powers several circuits [divider heater, water disp, ice disp, and so on] then it swings around the ice maker interlock switch and then to a terminal on the ice cream maker's temp control bypass switch. The hot leg leaves that same terminal, goes up to the icemaker interlock switch and then on to the icemaker. The hot leg also goes THRU the temp control bypass switch [from the top to the NC side], and on to the temp control. Power then goes thru the temp control [when it's closed] and on to the defrost timer. In the refrigeration cycle the middle and bottom contacts inside the defrost timer are made. The hot leg continues on to power the condensor fan motor and the compressor circuit. There are some things that we need to backtrack and take notice of. The defrost timer motor only runs when the temp control is closed. This is called "accumulative defrost", the defrost timer only accumulates time during the refrigeration mode. During defrost, the contacts inside the timer shift from middle and bottom to middle and top. The freezer fan, condensor fan and compressor are shut off and the defrost heater is turned on. As it defrosts, the evaporator coil warms up to the point where the defrost thermostat opens. The defrost timer continues to run for a drain off and then re-switches it's contacts to the refrigeration mode. However, the freezer fan does not restart until the evaporator coil is cold enough to reclose the defrost thermostat [typically, a defrost thermostat might open at 45 degrees and reclose at 28 degrees]. So, in normal operation, the freezer fan should not be on during the defrost mode and it will not run during the refrigeration mode unless the evaporator coil is cold enough to close the defrost thermostat. In the ice cream making mode three things happen. The temp contol bypass switch moves so that top to NO is now made and the NC side is open. All this does is bypass the temp control and the defrost timer to keep the compressor, condensor fan, and freezer fan running even if the temp control opens. It also prevents a defrost. You can imagine that you want the refrigeration to stay on until the ice cream is done. The temp control bypass switch also feeds power to the cycle timer interlock switch. The interlock switch closes which does 2 things. It powers the cycle timer motor which keeps it running until the end of the ice cream making cycle. It also powers the switch atbove the cycle timer motor which is closed during the ice cream operation. That provides a circuit to run te auger motor. So, my guess is ice ream is made in the ice cube hopper.

I can see why you would want to salvage this fridge. Did you ever make ice cream in it? How did it work out? First thing to to is figure out the compressor. If it's not running and freezing, the rest doesn't matter. How long will the compressor run? The evaporator coil should start to frost fairly quicly, say within 10 minutes. We can see now why the freezer fan is not runnig in the refrigeration mode. But it should be running during the defrost mode, it's either miswired or the timer cintacts are malfunctioning. Trace the wiring for the fan very closely and be sure it checks out before condeming the timer.
Wow, thanks for all that info. That all makes sense to me.

Not only have I never made ice cream with it... I never knew it had the capability until all this came about. Have you seen that on other models before?

In your opinion, could this possible defrost timer mix-up affect the compressor in any other way besides causing it not to try to come on at all?

I plugged it back in last night after reading your post and here's what happened...

The condenser fan came on, the compressor started up and I could hear things starting to circulate. That lasted for about 6 seconds then I heard a click and I thought I saw a faint flash coming from the start relay/overload box so I assume that the overload is cutting it off. The condenser fan continued to run for a minute or so and then the compressor came on again... same thing... about 6 seconds and then click. This process repeated itself about 5 or 6 times and then the next time the compressor came on it stayed on. I waited about 10 minutes and checked the evaporator coils... nothing. I reached in and shook them around just a little and I noticed that I heard circulation in them. I had never noticed that before so I don't know if I shook a blockage loose or I had just never noticed it. So I waited another 10, 20, 30 minutes... no frost...no cooling that I could tell. I left it on for probably an hour before giving up and unplugging it. The compressor continued to run the whole time. It was a little warm to the touch but not hot at all.

I would assume that since I can hear circulation in the condenser and in the evaporator coils that the fridge has freon. Am I wrong? If freon is circulating, what's left to be the reason that it won't cool? Also, why would it be tripping the overload 4 or 5 times and then running fine?
 
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Old 11-09-07, 02:18 PM
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You might be in need of an amp meter so you can better determine at what point you don't have the right draw of power. The Kill a Watt testing device is good at telling you total draw, and updating the readouts continously. But you might have to isolate to not just the entire machine - SO, with an amp meter you could determine if you are getting full voltage -TO- the compressor-area wiring, like to the starter relay and run capacitor, which are hooked up by the box that connects to the compressor

You could just go out and buy these parts and see. But that does not address or explain to me your backwards issue with the evaporator fan coming on when in defrost. So I'd be leary of getting those two parts at this time.

That is why you could have something wrong at some point (I mentioned in the defrost timer) where not all the necessary current is even getting to the compressor area. Some of it may be getting diverted elsewhere, and then SIMULATES somthing being wrong with the starter relay or run capacitor.

So you realty need to find out if the full line voltage is getting down to the compressor area when the fridge is "calling for" cooling.

That's MY opinion anyway, at this juncture.
 
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Old 11-09-07, 07:14 PM
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For some mechanical reason inside the compressor, it is having trouble starting. Then, once it gets started, it's not cooling/freezing. The inability to freeze/cool could be because the refrigerant has leaked out or it could be because the compressor is mechanically damaged inside. Since you can hear fluid circulatng, the problem has to be mechanical damage of some kind inside the compressor. My best guess is either some of the reed valves are broken or one of the connecting rods or pistons is damaged. We'll never know for sure. If the refrigerant had all leaked out, the compressor wouldn't have trouble starting [assuming no mechanical damage]. After running for 30 minutes with the fan off, there should have been a nice coating of frost on the evaporator coil. The compressor running for an hour tells me the problem is not electrical. So you're looking a bad compressor and possibly a wiring problem to trace out and repair. The box isn't worth the repair cost. I've never seen one with the ie cream maker feature. I would be curious to find out how well tey sold. Great idea if it works.
 
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Old 11-09-07, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by chadmw7 View Post
fan continued to run for a minute or so and then the compressor came on again... same thing... about 6 seconds and then click. This process repeated itself about 5 or 6 times and then the next time the compressor came on it stayed on. ......... I waited another 10, 20, 30 minutes... no frost...no cooling that I could tell. I left it on for probably an hour before giving up and unplugging it. The compressor continued to run the whole time. It was a little warm to the touch but not hot at all.
If the compressor is running on full voltage and what Dj says is likely, it no longer looks like a DIY job and it's time to decide whether you want a repairman to come so you can save an unusual machine where you can tell friends you have an icecream maker in it.
 
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Old 11-09-07, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by daddyjohn View Post
For some mechanical reason inside the compressor, it is having trouble starting. Then, once it gets started, it's not cooling/freezing. The inability to freeze/cool could be because the refrigerant has leaked out or it could be because the compressor is mechanically damaged inside. Since you can hear fluid circulatng, the problem has to be mechanical damage of some kind inside the compressor. My best guess is either some of the reed valves are broken or one of the connecting rods or pistons is damaged. We'll never know for sure. If the refrigerant had all leaked out, the compressor wouldn't have trouble starting [assuming no mechanical damage]. After running for 30 minutes with the fan off, there should have been a nice coating of frost on the evaporator coil. The compressor running for an hour tells me the problem is not electrical. So you're looking a bad compressor and possibly a wiring problem to trace out and repair. The box isn't worth the repair cost. I've never seen one with the ie cream maker feature. I would be curious to find out how well tey sold. Great idea if it works.
Just to satisfy my curiosity, what is the liquid circulation I'm hearing? Is that the refrigerant? If the refrigerant is circulating, what is it that's holding it back from cooling?

Is there any scenario in which a wiring problem could be causing my compressor to act the way I've described? I guess that's why I've held onto it this long. I find that when something seems to be too big a coincidence to be true, it usually is. Just seems like the odds are small that it would have a compressor problem and an electrical problem at the same time... unless the compressor caused the electrical problem... or vice versa.

Do you think there's any way that a hardstart kit might help me?
 
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Old 11-10-07, 12:10 PM
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You said that the compresssor ran for an hour right? Now read my lips- it's not electrical if it will run that long. The fluid you hear circulating is the refrigerant, however the compressor has lost it's ability to pump.Take a look at the refrigerant flow diagram on the back of the box. See the evaporator? In the evaporator the refrigerant picks up heat, it then goes to the compressor where it's pressure and corresponding temperature are in increased. The refrigerant then goes to the condensor where it expels the heat it picked up in the evaporator. Then the refrigerant goes thru the capillary tubing which feeds it back into the evaporator where it picks up more heat. Refrigeration is not a process of "making cold". It is a process of removing heat from one location [inside the refrigerator] and expelling that heat at another location [outside the refrgerator]. In order to cool/freeze, the compressor has to be able to reduce the pressure of the refrigerant in the evaporator to the proper pressure/temperature range which it is not doing which is why the evaporator coil is not getting cold. Some kind of mechanical damage in the compressor is holding it back from working properly.
 
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Old 11-10-07, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by daddyjohn View Post
You said that the compresssor ran for an hour right? Now read my lips- it's not electrical if it will run that long. The fluid you hear circulating is the refrigerant, however the compressor has lost it's ability to pump.Take a look at the refrigerant flow diagram on the back of the box. See the evaporator? In the evaporator the refrigerant picks up heat, it then goes to the compressor where it's pressure and corresponding temperature are in increased. The refrigerant then goes to the condensor where it expels the heat it picked up in the evaporator. Then the refrigerant goes thru the capillary tubing which feeds it back into the evaporator where it picks up more heat. Refrigeration is not a process of "making cold". It is a process of removing heat from one location [inside the refrigerator] and expelling that heat at another location [outside the refrgerator]. In order to cool/freeze, the compressor has to be able to reduce the pressure of the refrigerant in the evaporator to the proper pressure/temperature range which it is not doing which is why the evaporator coil is not getting cold. Some kind of mechanical damage in the compressor is holding it back from working properly.
I see. So just because the refrigerant is making the rounds and circulating doesn't necessarily mean that it should be cold. That all depends on the correct pressure. Is that right?
 
  #24  
Old 11-10-07, 12:31 PM
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JENN-AIR Refrigerator

About every two or three days water is on the floor just on the outside of the front of the frig. Drip pan is in place. Need help in stopping this water. Thank you much for any help you can give me.

Wayne
 
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Old 11-10-07, 01:22 PM
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chad:

I gave you an oversimplified version of the refrigeration cycle but to answer your question, yes, the pressure and corresponding temperature of the refrigerant has to be reduced in the evaporator coil. That's because there is a direct pressure/temperature relationship for the refrigerant when it is in the evaporator or condesor coil. IOW- if the refrigerant is at x pressure it will be at y temperature. Another concept to understand is that heat always travels from warmer to colder or downhill. So if we want the freezer interior to be at 0 degrees, the refrigerant inside the evaporator as it circulates thru the evaporator would need to be at -10 degress or colder. Your box uses R-12. R-12 at
-10 has an operating pressure of about 4.5 lbs. Let's say the box starts off at 74 degrees [room temp]. The compressor would have to reduce the evaporator pressure from about 76 lbs. to about 4.5 lbs. and it simply isn't doing it. Like I said before, with the fan off, after 30 minutes of run time there should be a nice frost coating on the evaporator coil. Now, why did the compressor die? I don't know, but something [probably a valve] broke inside.

HI gg:

Firts check the door seal at the bottom. Make sure the gasket is ok and that the door closes properly [door doesn't hang down, door isn't warped etc.] Do you have wter or ice in the door? Is water running down the inside of the door? If all that is ok, take off the kickplate and shine a light in there. oes it look like maybe water is running to the front from the back of the box? Pull the box out and see if maybe the water tubing or water valves have a small leak and water is running from the back to the front. Let us know what you find.
 
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