replacing burned dryer outlet with new outlet


  #1  
Old 02-28-08, 02:21 AM
plzspoilme25's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: central missouri
Posts: 21
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Question replacing burned dryer outlet with new outlet

we have a new washer and dryer arriving 5pm thursday.
the old washer had went out months ago, and the dryer plug had made a spark, but since we had not had a washer to use we hadnt done anymore with the dryer. till now.
i had to buy a new cord (salesman said they would not install the dryer without one) so i did, and i got the outlet thing that i needed to go with the plug they said i needed.....it so happens they gave me the 3prong cord, and the outlet that i got looked exactly like the one that was that there

on removing the old dryer outlet, it was burned to pieces (not sure how it didnt burn the whole house down) btw this is a rental house(duplex) so after i removed all the burned pieces and cut the burned wire off up to the non burned part, i went to installl the new outlet relizing that i needed a white, red and black. but only having a white black and bare, i did some research, and found that the wire that is there is a nm-b 600v 14-2(i think) so in any case i have no red wire, and not real good this stuff i had to stop. as that info on what wire i have does me no good since i dont know what i need, other than something with a red wire, but it was hooked up fine and the dryer ran for a year, with no problems.....so i'm confused on the wire arrangement, do i need something with a red wire, or is the wires there all i need is to wire them diffrent than the instructions say, (white to the silver screw and red and black to the gold screws marked with red or black) i've read alot of the other post here, and i didnt find anything to help with this perticular problem. i'm not sure why the first outlet caught fire, but it did seem like maybe the water from the washer outlets may have been too close and caused some damage, as there is some rusting on what is left of the first outlet.

in any case i'm supose to have the outlet wired in so when they get here with the washer and dryer they can hook it up, but i really dont want to risk my brand new $800 dryer if the wires are not right. i was only able to afford this kind of nice setup due to our tax return, and i'm pretty sure the landlord is not going to do anything about any of it, so i'd like to finish fixing it myself if i can. thanks for any help u can offer.
 
  #2  
Old 02-28-08, 02:36 AM
plzspoilme25's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: central missouri
Posts: 21
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
i think this is the right
Electrical Requirements
30 Ampere, 120/240 Volts, 60 Hertz (1/second). AC-ONLY. USE COPPER WIRE ONLY. A FOUR-WIRE OR THREE-WIRE, SINGLE PHASE ELECTRICAL SUPPLY REQUIRED. A TIME-DELAY FUSE OR CIRCUIT BREAKER AND SEPARATE CIRCUIT IS RECOMMENDED.
 
  #3  
Old 02-28-08, 08:54 AM
Unclediezel's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northeastern PA.
Posts: 2,230
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
First off, It is unwise, unsafe, and illegal, to do electrical work on A property that you do not own. The legal liability could actually land you up in prison.

Second..14/2 ????? This is a definite no no. 14 gauge wire is at best , capable of 15 amps. Your dryer requires 30. at minimum you would require 10 gauge wire.

Third....Yes you could have used the three wire setup providing it was functional. Since it is so Wrong, a new line must be installed, with the proper gauge wire. Since it will be a NEW LINE..code requires a 4 wire setup.

You are in a jam....
1) The incorrect wire sparked and burned because of the heat buildup, from the high current and smaller than required wiring. This was a fire waiting to happen...consider yourself and family very lucky...
2) Loss of a "LEG" or "Phase" of 220 voltage will render the appliance inoperative. It may spin and not heat, heat and not spin, or just sit there and HUM... I suspect there is a good chance the old dryer isnt defective at all....It wont work right if the electric isnt right.
 
  #4  
Old 02-28-08, 11:22 AM
plzspoilme25's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: central missouri
Posts: 21
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
i do consider my family and i very very lucky, and have been going around cursing the idiot that put my family in such danger for two days now......we survived a house fire in jan 2000. i was home alone with a newborn and a two year old at two in the morning, so i do feel very lucky.

i didnt even think of the legal issues i guess since i was determined to put my family first and fix the problem that could have killed us all.....course being scared of fire issues i have more than enough smoke detectors and carbon monoxide detectors, so i'm sure we'd had survived

and i only think its 14/2 by what i can figure....any for sure way of knowing?

any ideas on what i should do now? any place to report this? i told my husband that i didnt want to get rid of the dryer, so that if it came down to having proof, of what it did....but i guess i cant run the wire with what u said about prison....can't keep my kids safe from there.......any ideas on what i should do now?
 
  #5  
Old 02-28-08, 11:46 AM
plzspoilme25's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: central missouri
Posts: 21
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
thank you for ur information.....it helped...kinda, lol, we had been here for a year and the dryer worked seemingly fine, thats what had me confused, and the washer is what went out first...and it wasnt till we were taking out the washer, and cleaning up the area that the dryer sparked (i guess i was not home when that happened) the washer simply went out because my teen put way too much in there at one time, and my dad had tried to fix it, we were hoping it was just a belt but not such luck.....we were not even using the dryer when it sparked, just cleaning up the mess that the repair of the washer had made. didnt even think to unplug or anything else with the dryer because it was not what was broken.
now dont know if it will work or not, but the case still being i bought a brand new set and its still on its way, and i still not sure what i should do at this point.
 
  #6  
Old 02-28-08, 11:47 AM
Unclediezel's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northeastern PA.
Posts: 2,230
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
On the wiring Jacket, Where it says NM-B 600V...

There should be a size designation. such as 14/2 wg or with ground conductor...You are interested in the first two #'s

If your really brave.....save the burned outlet, and call an electrician to fix it....send the bill to the landlord, or deduct it from the rent. It is a "Safe Bet" that it was / is a fire hazard, so if it comes down to Landlord/tenant court, You felt threatened when the outlet started "SMOKING".... I dont know how your state law works, But regardless of who is responsible, This must be fixed. Even without using the dryer outlet, live wires in the wall with burn damage are just as hazardous. At bare minimum, shut off the breaker for the dryer outlet.

Explain the situation of the cord and wiring for the new dryer to the Electrician.. He'll know what to do, as far as the configuration goes.(3 or 4 wire cord).

It is possible to use a new cord on your old dryer if you still have it, for test purposes once this is all straightened out. A couple of bucks , or a few beers, may likely entice the electrician to check your old dryer for you.
 
  #7  
Old 02-28-08, 11:57 AM
plzspoilme25's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: central missouri
Posts: 21
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
well on the wire, i can't read anymore of the numbers, most of it burned, i went by searching for the nm-b 600v and found that the color of the outside dedermined the gauge white=14
 
  #8  
Old 02-28-08, 12:12 PM
Unclediezel's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northeastern PA.
Posts: 2,230
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
How old is the house???

found that the color of the outside dedermined the gauge white=14
Usually, but not "Fool Proof"...

If you go the electrician route... He "WILL WITH CERTAINTY" be able to tell you what it is....and whether or not it actually doesnt belong there....

My only drawback is this...Who in their right mind would install a 220 receptacle with 14 gauge wire, and ...How did it last this long???

I'm not a lawyer, so take this with a grain of salt.. But you rented the apartment with accessible "Laundry Utility" provisions....You no longer have this ability, so ....Someone has to make up for your loss.....
 
  #9  
Old 02-28-08, 12:21 PM
plzspoilme25's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: central missouri
Posts: 21
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
well thats how i feel about it, i mean i did go out and spend money on a new dryer that i may not have had too, not to mention the hassel it is to do laundry for a 6 person family....luckily i have family close by that i've been transporting it too...cost too much at the laundry mat.....


not sure the age of the house.....not older than 70's i'm sure

but the last time we went thru this, we had an issue with the landlord because he didnt want to do anything about all the water in the basement, as such it created half the living space for us, but we made a fuss about it so long story short he found reasons to not want us as tenets, so we had to find a house quick...which led us here. doesnt seem that we can get a break either way we go.....so the question is push for compinsation, or just hope we dont get kicked out because of someone elses dumb mistake...... thanks again u've been bunches of help, with info....
 
  #10  
Old 02-28-08, 02:13 PM
plzspoilme25's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: central missouri
Posts: 21
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
even if it was 10/2 the color of the wires still dont match, i still only have a white and black and bare. (not that i'm gonna try cause got someone coming tomorrow(no good for my delievery today) but, if it did support the 30amp dryer, then maybe its not all wrong???? because i do get the basics of wiring. it doesnt seem possiable that it was a 14/2 cause ur right how would it have lasted this long. but in that case what would have caused it to burn? and if its the right wire for a 30amp dryer, how do u detertame what wire went where.....cause the outlet i took off(the burned one) seems to be the exact same set up as the one i just bought, so if thats the case then how did the person that wired it do so? THANKS again
 
  #11  
Old 02-28-08, 02:53 PM
Unclediezel's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northeastern PA.
Posts: 2,230
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Ok...

Quick start lesson in wiring......

NM-b cable..... Non-metallic- B temperature rating (Also called "ROMEX" type cable...)

XX/ 2 ... XX is the gauge of the wires,... 2 is the number of insulated wires in the Jacket... Not counting the bare copper wire...Usually white / black/ and bare

XX/3...would be 3 insulated conductors and a bare ground
Usually white/ black/ red/ and bare

A 3 prong receptacle ----From a dual pole circuit breaker
White and black to the pole screws on the breaker..and bare to the ground bar in the panel.
A 4 prong receptacle ..From a dual pole breaker..Red and black to the pole screws on the breaker, white to the neutral bar in the panel, and bare to the ground bar in the panel.

Either receptacle should be marked as to wire terminals
X+Y are hot wires , W is neutral , and G is ground.
 
  #12  
Old 02-28-08, 03:03 PM
D
Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central PA
Posts: 757
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Burnt outlet

I've seen the outlets burn wires off if the lug wasn't tightened good enough in the recepticle. It arcs & builds up heat. I had a plug melted into the recepticle so bad that I could'nt pull it out. Had to replace them both. Another way to see what size wire they used is to go to breaker box, find the double pole 30 amp breaker & follow the wire back to where the shield is on wire & look for the wire size there. If they did use 14 or 12 gauge wire they must have used the black & white as the hots (120 volts each) & the bare as the neutral. Believe me, its amazing what people do. I usually turn down electrical jobs. I stick to appliance repairs. If I do point out an outdated, overloaded electrical panel most people gasp at what it would cost to update it to current code.
 
  #13  
Old 02-28-08, 03:17 PM
Unclediezel's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northeastern PA.
Posts: 2,230
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Just a guess Dave...But I'm willing to bet there was just a plain old 120/ 15 amp receptacle in place at one time...

Move the white wire off the bussbar to a DP breaker and change the recept...And VOILA...instant 240 dryer circuit...

Any thoughts..?????
 
  #14  
Old 02-28-08, 05:21 PM
D
Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central PA
Posts: 757
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Outlet

Like I said, i've seen it all. Could be that or 2 single pole breakers put together with a wire stuck between the handles to imitate a double pole breaker.
 
  #15  
Old 02-28-08, 08:43 PM
plzspoilme25's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: central missouri
Posts: 21
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
like i said i get the basics.....that info i had figured out-xx-2 ect. i know that the wire is xx2 easy to see that, the thing i dont get is if there is not the red wire...which would be xx3 then how or what did they do to make it work....from the burnt left overs three wires all screwed down (tightly) to what was left of the recipt. in any case its not something i can fix....i'm just trying to have all the info i can when the ******* landlord (i shouldnt blame him directly he didnt put it there-but is resposiable)shows up and since i NOW know how bad of an idea it was to mess with it since it wasnt my property (even as easy as it should have been) i just need the power of knowledge in case he wants to be dumb about it all, and put all the blame on me....which i have all the burnt pieces so i'm guessing no matter which way he tries to turn it, all in all i can't be blamed for bad wires that were there before i moved in. thanks......
 
  #16  
Old 02-28-08, 08:52 PM
plzspoilme25's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: central missouri
Posts: 21
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
the cost is crazy, but there are alot of things involved when dealing with the wiring of the house, we were gonna buy this really old house that had paper covered wiring, on things that looked like the kind of thing u see at the electrical substations, and hot wires runing everywhere, it was really weird and this guy rented this house out....we wanted to rent to own so we could build on the property, and we checked in to all the cost cause it was going to have to be done from top to bottom, and it was crazy, even with the stuff we were gonna get for nothing the whole job could have built the house we wanted to begin with....so we didnt take it, i was pregnate at the time, no way i was gonna have a baby around all that......anyway,

i can't see in the breaker box, its inside the wall with the face plate very secure....i didnt want to mess with it anymore after already getting the info that messing with other ppls wiring was a bad idea....but there definatly is a double breaker on it, but no clue whats connected to that or how....
but i'm wanting to keep up on the info i need, just to make sure he doesnt come in and patch it all up again........we want to move, to a better house with enough room for all of us, but hard to find rental places with enough room....well without spending 2grand a month anyway......thanks for ur input.....
 
  #17  
Old 02-28-08, 09:31 PM
plzspoilme25's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: central missouri
Posts: 21
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Lightbulb The New Question....i Guess

so i guess the new question at this point is what should i be looking for or expecting the landlord to do......Basically to make sure i dont get the same BAD results i've had....and my brand new dryer (7.0cu ft and not need a bigger amp???seems odd to me, but following what is expected)get ruined.....anything i can do to the new dryer to prevent it from being damaged against faulty wiring? mayb like the way i protect my computer and othe electronics with a surge protector? i know its not the same thing but i'm just speaking in theroy, a way to protect my high dollar once in a life time available purchase from outside interfarance? if not there SHOULD be i mean i did spend more the dryer alone than i would for any electronic....never mind the total $$amount it all came too........

the good thing about renting.....i dont have to pay for the complete rewiring if thats what i comes down too.....
 
  #18  
Old 02-28-08, 09:37 PM
plzspoilme25's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: central missouri
Posts: 21
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
seems like thats just asking for ur house to burn down
 
  #19  
Old 02-29-08, 03:58 PM
D
Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central PA
Posts: 757
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Proper circuit

They need to use 10/3 wire all the way from the 30 amp double pole breaker to the new recepticle. No surge protector is needed. Your new dryer does not need more than a 30 amp circuit.
 
  #20  
Old 02-29-08, 06:45 PM
plzspoilme25's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: central missouri
Posts: 21
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Exclamation

Originally Posted by dave6466 View Post
They need to use 10/3 wire all the way from the 30 amp double pole breaker to the new recepticle. No surge protector is needed. Your new dryer does not need more than a 30 amp circuit.
thanks.....

he did exactly what i figured he would do.....came in wired the outlet box with the exsiting wires, says its bigger than he uses in the stuff he builds new....i guess i'll take his word for it....
he wired the black and white wires to the hots, and the bare wire to the screw that said white....everything works okay...but i'm still not satisfied, still even if not a 14/2 its still not an xx/3 which it should be....he tested it with a voltage meter in front of us and its shows what it should(well yeah it would doesnt mean its wired right)anyway thanks for ur help. unfortunatly still not able to do laundry now the washer is messed up......showing a f29 error code...and of course that one not in the book......i just can't seem to get a break anywhere....LOL
 
  #21  
Old 03-01-08, 08:40 AM
D
Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central PA
Posts: 757
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Outlet

I could show you 220 volts on my meter if I used speaker wire to hook it up. Its the amperage draw you need to worry about. If the wire is indeed 10 gauge & he hooked it up the way he did although not the best way it should be ok. I would not be satisfied untill I could see the wire gauge stamped somewhere on the outer insulation of the wire. 12 gauge is not heavy enough for any dryer.
 
  #22  
Old 03-01-08, 01:59 PM
plzspoilme25's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: central missouri
Posts: 21
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by dave6466 View Post
I could show you 220 volts on my meter if I used speaker wire to hook it up. Its the amperage draw you need to worry about. If the wire is indeed 10 gauge & he hooked it up the way he did although not the best way it should be ok. I would not be satisfied untill I could see the wire gauge stamped somewhere on the outer insulation of the wire. 12 gauge is not heavy enough for any dryer.
well i feel a little better knowing that IF it is 10 gauge it will be okay the way he did it....i guess it will have to do, because thats the best i'm gonna get till i move......and it did seem to work okay, (still keeping my eye on it thats for sure) thanks for ur help and input......
 
  #23  
Old 03-01-08, 02:05 PM
Unclediezel's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northeastern PA.
Posts: 2,230
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
well i feel a little better knowing that IF it is 10 gauge it will be okay the way he did it.
Not to sound critical....But even if it isnt ok.....You didnt do it!!!!!! You now have someone to blame, who will have no choice but to accept responsibility, if and when something goes wrong....
 
  #24  
Old 03-01-08, 06:17 PM
plzspoilme25's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: central missouri
Posts: 21
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Unclediezel View Post
Not to sound critical....But even if it isnt ok.....You didnt do it!!!!!! You now have someone to blame, who will have no choice but to accept responsibility, if and when something goes wrong....
yes you are right......
 
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: