Whirlpool Dishwasher gets stuck in a cycle

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  #1  
Old 04-13-09, 09:38 PM
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Whirlpool Dishwasher gets stuck in a cycle

My Whirlpool DU8750XB1 dishwasher gets stuck in a cycle when it runs. It looks like it happens at the same point in the cycle before it reaches ''rinse'' and during that time, the ''delay/water heating'' light is on.

Could this be the thermostat? I believe it has 2 of them. A regular and a hi-limit. If it is that, are they easily replaced? I looked at the underneath of the unit but can't see them. Are they housed somewhere else?

The dishwasher is probably 10+ years old looking at the serial number beginning with "FD38"

Any help is appreciated.
 
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  #2  
Old 04-14-09, 05:02 AM
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Yes, there are 2 stats, hi limit and operating. You should find them attached to the pump housing. It gets a little tricky but the problem will boil down to one of the stats is bad or the heating element itself is bad [or something like a wire burned off at the element which will be obvious]. It can get a little tricky. I would start by checking to see if the element gets hot during operation. If no, ohm test the element itself. If ok, ohm test the high limit stat, it should be closed at room temp. If ok, try bypassing the operating stat and see if the element now gets hot during operation. Replacing the element and/or stats is not too hard except for the limited space to work underneath the machine. There should be a wiring diagram in the console, otherwise you can get one at Service Matters Online Let us know what you find. Thanks.
 
  #3  
Old 04-14-09, 10:29 AM
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Hey Johnny, Thanks for the quick reply...

I've looked under the hood and can't seem to find the stats. Looking at a parts diagram I found online, it looks like it would be toward the front left of center. But I don't see it. Should it be visible from simply looking under the bottom front of the unit?

As for the heating element, I assume you mean the tube that runs along the bottom of the inside of the machine? It seems intact, though it has some dark spots where it comes in from the bottom (and where the brackets hold it). All contacts underneath seem to be connected properly to the heating element.

The wiring diagram on service matters didnt seem to be much more than a general wiring plan. didnt really give any hints as to where things are.

Thanks again for the help.

Dave
 
  #4  
Old 04-14-09, 05:15 PM
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I also wanted to follow up with an image in hopes that someone can point me in the right direction as to where the thermostats are. Not sure this image is helpful, but here you go: (*click image for larger version) I would have thought from the schematic below this image that the thermostats would be on the left (listed as #18 and #19) but I only see the Relay (#24) on that area. Is it perhaps covered?

Thanks again...




 
  #5  
Old 04-14-09, 05:24 PM
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BTW, I checked out the wiring diagram on Service Matters site. It says that the thermostat should have and Y-BU (yellow/blue?) wire and the Hi-Limit should have a R (red?) wire. I don't see anything matching that under the hood.

Do I need to pull this thing out?

Thanks again!
 
  #6  
Old 04-14-09, 10:27 PM
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Great pics. Yes, the heating element is the tube looking device in the bottom of the inside of the tub. In the parts pic, #18 is the high limit thermostat and #19 is the cycling thermostat. It looks like they are mounted on the tub bottom. They are behind the sheet metal above the water inlet valve on the left side. Sometimes a wire color on a diagram means that the wire is a solid color with a colored stripe overlayed on the solid color. To pinpoint the culprit, first ohm test the heating element to see if it is open or has a measureable resistance. If it's ok, next ohm test the high limit thermostat, it should show continuity at room temperature. If that's ok, try electrically bypassing the cycling thermostat [just remove the wires from the stat and slide them together and put some electrical tape around the terminals] and see if it now works. Looking closer at the diagram, I see where one of he pushbutton switches is in series with the limit stat and the heating element. It could be bad but not likely. I think you'll find that you've got a bad stat or heating element. Let us know what your checks reveal. Yes, it might be easier if you slide the machine out and tip it up so you can see underneath better.
 
  #7  
Old 04-15-09, 08:46 AM
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Hey John, I pulled the unit out of the counter area and found the stats. even though they looked "front left", they were actually "back right".

I Ohm tested the heating element by touching each end of the coil inside the washer (or should I do this a different way?). With the unit set at 200 it jumped around between 15-25. I couldnt get it to stay on one number. When I continuity tested it, the testing unit sounded so there is current passing through it.

I tested the continuity of the high-limit at room temp where the tester should sound if there is some current passing though.. No sound and the display showed a 1 meaning no continuity. Ohm testing it showed a 1... no continuity... Hmmm...

I tested the regular stat which showed continuity at room temp... set at 200Ohms it showed a .2

Hope this helps... Thanks again!
 
  #8  
Old 04-15-09, 09:10 AM
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You'll want to test the heating element at the electrical connections underneath the machine. Remove the wires and test terminal to terminal on the heater. Frankly, I wouldn't worry about the amount of resistance necessarily, heating elements are usually go or no go. IOW- they either have resistance or are open; they usually simply have no continuity when they fail. Are you sure you are have the stats properly indentified? According to the wiring diagram, the high limit stat is normally closed and opens at 170 to 185 degreesF. Translation- it should be closed and show continuity at room temp. The cycling stat is normally open and closes at 135 to 145 degreesF. That means it should be open at room temp and not show continuity. Test again and post your results. If the ohms tests seem ok, you'll have to do some voltage tests. How comfortable are you with that? It's possible but not probable that the push button switch or a timer contact has gone south. The most common failure is the heating element. When you tested the stats, you removed the wires- right?
 
  #9  
Old 04-15-09, 09:22 AM
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Hey John.

Yes I did have the wires removed when testing the stats...

I may have those stats reversed. In fact I dont know why I assumed one was the High-Limit and the other wasnt... BUT.. what I can tell you is that the one that was closed(showing continuity) has a wire that connects to the heating element.
Looking at the wiring diagram, that seems to be the high-limit... so looks like I did have them reversed.

The one that does not have a wire going to the heating element was open (did not show continuity).

I ohm tested the heater from the leads at the bottom of the unit. Set at 200 Ohms it read 17.4.

I'm pretty comfortable doing voltage tests.. I am fairly handy with electrical.. though I've had my share of arcs when testing stuff. I just installed recessed lighting in my kitchen and a new outlet in my attic...

Any ideas.. thanks again.

Dave
 
  #10  
Old 04-15-09, 10:26 AM
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ok, sounds good. The stat with the lead going to the heater would be the high limit. Basically the way the Thermo Hold portion of the cycle works is contact #22 in the timer opens which stops the timer motor. The timer then sits there waiting for the water to heat up and close the cycling themostat which sends voltage to the timer motor. Next thing to do- put the machine back, run a cycle, see if the heating element is in fact getting hot. If yes, then jump out the cycling thermostat and see what happens. If no, we will have to backtrack from the heating element one step at a time to the timer. BTW- if the timer chart is confusing, go to service matters, search job aids, then type in dishwashers. You'll find a nice study course and book which, among other things, explains how to read the timer charts. I have to go down in the basement for a while, I'll check back in later. Thanks.
 
  #11  
Old 04-15-09, 10:33 AM
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Thanks John, will do... You know. I'm wondering... We went on vacation for a week and during that time I turned my hot water heater down to "Vacation" mode. When I came back I dialed it back up.. but maybe not far enough... is it possible the water coming in is not very hot to begin with so its taking so long to heat up? I read that it takes 20 min to heat the water 2 degrees. So if the temp was low it could really delay things. Anyway. I'll put the unit back and run a cycle and report back.

Thank again,

Dave
 
  #12  
Old 04-15-09, 10:54 AM
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And I have to follow up with what seems to be a dumb question... How do I check if the heating element is getting hot. I assume I don't touch it. Can I use a meat thermometer or something? Do I simply touch it to the heating element (coil) inside the d/w mid cycle?

Thx

Dave
 
  #13  
Old 04-15-09, 11:27 AM
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Don't touch the element! Just open the door after it's been on water heating for a while and put your hand near the element. Try putting your HWH back to the setting you used before. I sent you a private message.
 
  #14  
Old 04-15-09, 12:31 PM
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Hey John.. thanks again for the help and the voice IM chat walking me through my issue here...

As we discussed. I checked the temperature of the water it appears to me the same temp as my hot water. The heater element didnt seam to be giving off any heat... though there is 120 Volts running to it when I tested the leads of the heater element.

You suggested that it sounds like a bad heater, so I'm gonna replace that part and see if that helps.

I'll report back when I get the part installed and tested.

THANK YOU AGAIN!

Dave
 
  #15  
Old 04-18-09, 06:09 AM
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Hey there John, I got the thermostat and dropped it in, unfortunately, the Dishwasher is still sticking at the same point ... bummer!

Just to confirm, there isn't a + and - on those contacts, right? It can go in either way, right?

Guess its back to the drawing board. aye?

For those that are wondering why I replaced the thermostat when my last post was that I was going to replace the heater... a few PMs when back and forth and we realized that the heater was getting hot during the dry cycle, so it probably wasn't broken. We figured the next step was to replace the thermostat and go from there. Hope this helps someone
 
  #16  
Old 04-18-09, 04:05 PM
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The stat can be wired either way. It is simply a heat activated switch. We'll have to go back to the wiring diagram. First off though, did you happen to ohm test the the new stat before it was installed? Perhaps they sent you the wrong one? It should have tested open [no continuity] at room temperature. Next thing to do is run a cycle with the stat leads off the terminals and taped off separately for safety. Clip your meter leads onto the thermostat terminals and see if the thermostat ever closes. If it does. pull the power, tape the leads [from the thermostat] together, [make you have good contact, do not put them back on the thermostat], turn the power to the machine back on and see if the cycle now continues. If it the cycle does not continue, you'll need to trace the lead that goes from the cycling thermostat back to the timer. See if you have voltage on that lead. It's possible that the timer contact is bad or that lead wire is open. Let us know what u find.
 
  #17  
Old 04-19-09, 03:51 AM
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You can try spraying the timer contacts with a non-residue cleaning spray available at Lowes. Just rotate the timer while spraying.
 
  #18  
Old 04-19-09, 05:37 PM
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Hey John,

Thanks again for the reply. Please see below.

Originally Posted by daddyjohn View Post
First off though, did you happen to ohm test the the new stat before it was installed? Perhaps they sent you the wrong one? It should have tested open [no continuity] at room temperature.
I did test it, It was open. Thats a good start!

Originally Posted by daddyjohn View Post
Next thing to do is run a cycle with the stat leads off the terminals and taped off separately for safety. Clip your meter leads onto the thermostat terminals and see if the thermostat ever closes.
Its not going to be very easy for me to do this unfortunately, The stat terminals are pretty small and my meter leads and handles are like 4". I'm not having luck getting them to say on cause I have to flip the dw on its back to get to them then flip it back up and push it back under the counter and hook the water up. by then the leads come off. Frustrating!

Originally Posted by daddyjohn View Post
If it does. pull the power, tape the leads [from the thermostat] together, [make you have good contact, do not put them back on the thermostat], turn the power to the machine back on and see if the cycle now continues. If it the cycle does not continue, you'll need to trace the lead that goes from the cycling thermostat back to the timer. See if you have voltage on that lead. It's possible that the timer contact is bad or that lead wire is open. Let us know what u find.
The wire leads have a plastic sleeve over them that snap onto the stat terminals. There's no easy way to connect the wires together without dismantling the clips or buying some sort of coupler they can clip to.

I'm gonna take a break tonight and try again tomorrow evening. I do also have some CRC that I can spray on the dial contacts maybe that will help.

Thanks!

Dave
 
  #19  
Old 04-19-09, 06:48 PM
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actually, I lied, I didnt take a break. I pulled the door panel off to access the wires and the timer... I pulled everything apart, sprayed CRC on the contacts and the plug going into the timer. I opened the timer, sprayed crc on the contacts in there. Put everything back together where it was. Checked to see if the dial was working properly. which it was... and ran a cycle... still stuck. same spot...

Is it possible the heater is only working in the drying cycle and not in that spot that its stuck? I open it when its stuck and the heater just doesnt feel hot there.. but it does feel hot in the dry cycle. Odd right?
 
  #20  
Old 04-20-09, 04:49 AM
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Yes, it would be odd that the heater is only working in the dry cycle but not outside of the realm of possibilities. That is why I wanted you to take the water temp. Without an amp clamp like I showed you on the webcam, taking the water temp is about the only way we'll know if the heater is working during the water heating phase. For testing, what if you had some long wires with alligator clips one the ends? You could clip one end on underneath the machine, bring the lead out and clip the other end to your meter leads. You could probably buy them premade at Radio Shack or go to HD, Lowe's etc buy some clips and wire and make your own. If you go to a home center, also buy a plastic [er, excuse me, non-metallic] switch box and light switch. Hook up a long wire to each terminal on the switch, mount the switch in the box, bring the wires out of the box and put some alligator clips on the ends. You will use this later to simulate the action of the thermostat. Just to clarify, the macine is only getting stuck in rinse? In pots & pans or normal, the water heating phase works ok? Is that correct? The machine has 3 wash cycles, pots & pans, heavy and normal/light. There are also 2 rinse cycles. The thermal hold [waiting for the water to heat up] occurs in pots & pans, normal and the second rinse cycle. At each thermal hold the timer motor contact opens [#22] and the machine sits and waits for the cycling thermosat to close which re-energizes the timer motor. With the timer motor running again the timer advances. So, it's important to know exactly where the machine is stopping. Start at pots & pans and watch it all the way. Thanks.
 
  #21  
Old 04-20-09, 05:32 AM
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Great idea on the alligator clips...and the switch rig!... gonna get those today.

Just to clarify where it gets stuck. Its pretty much the same spot every time... seem image below. Along with the dial, there are 4 cycle settings: Pots and Pans, Heavy, Normal/Light, Rinse & Hold. I tried putting it on Normal/Light and it still sticks.



Will report back when I get the clips and switch items... thanks again.
 
  #22  
Old 04-20-09, 07:02 AM
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ok here's what we need to do
take the wires off of the terminals of the thermostat, clip one wire from the switch to one wire from the thermostat and clip the other wire from the switch to the other wire from the thermostat. Ensure that the switch is in the OFF position. At the same time, clip a wire to each of the terminals on the thermostat itself and clip the other end of each of those to a meter lead. Run the machine until it gets stuck. Then just let it sit there for at least 15 minutes or maybe even half an hour. Then, read your meter to see if you get continuity on the thermostat [in other words, we want to know does the thermostat in fact heat up and close. If it doesn't, try to quickly the read temperature of the water in the machine] Next, move the light switch handle to the ON position and see if the timer advances. I'm also curious, what position is the hi-temp wash button in?
 
  #23  
Old 04-20-09, 09:23 AM
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Hey John, So I did exactly that. Got alligator clips and the connectors (the things the plastic things slide over) from RadioShack and hooked it all up...

the result:

Dishwasher stuck at same spot. The thermostat never closed. I hit the switch, the water heating light went off, and the timer clicked. It continued with the cycle and is now drying.

1/2 way though the dry cycle thermostat closed.

So? is the prob the heating element as we originally assumed? (BTW...Its on a fedex truck for delivery here today.)

The heater is working in the dry cycle... Just doesnt seem to work in the other cycle. Though we did test and 120V is on the heating element contacts in that cycle...weird...

Thanks again.. I like my Rube Goldberg setup here to figure this out. We're making progress!
 

Last edited by fishnyc22; 04-20-09 at 10:54 AM.
  #24  
Old 04-20-09, 11:52 AM
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Yeppers. Sometimes you have to come up with a work around. With the cycle continuing after you closed the switch, that tells us that contact #30 in the timer is ok. How well is the thermostat contacting the bottom of the tub? The heat is transfered by conduction, so it has to be tight against the tub and the surface it makes contact with has to be clean. The other thing that came to mind is it's possible the heating element is working but not producing enough heat, although that's a stretch. I looked back thru the posts and found that the heater ohm tested at 17.4 ohms which works out to 800 watts give or take a little and approx. 7 amps. Look on the label for the machine and see if they indicate the amperage for the heater. You also might compare the resistance of the new heating element vs. the one in the machine. THe other thing I'm wondering about is the vacation mode on your hot water tank that you mentioned. What temperature water is entering the machine? Were you able to take a water temp in the machine while it was stuck? What's wierd is we had 120 volts at the heating element during the water heating phase.
 
  #25  
Old 04-20-09, 12:08 PM
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Hey John,

I Ohm tested the new heater and it comes in around 20.8
I double checked the heater in the unit and it was approx 17.4 again.

The units Heater is listed at 6.7 Amps

I forgot to take the temp this time but the last time I did it was showing around 140 or so from what I remember. But that was with a meat thermometer. I had dialed up the heat on my water heater last week.

The thermostat is firmly against the bottom of the tub.
 
  #26  
Old 04-21-09, 08:34 PM
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Just wanted to follow up here since I've been PMing John who has been kind enough to help me through this...

After testing the thermostats and the voltage to the heater and all being ok. I dropped in the new heater just as a test to see if it would solve the problem, though we didnt expect much since it was working in dry mode and the voltage was there during the stuck cycle. No luck...

The water level was a bit low, we wanted to be sure that it wasn't draining water when it wasn't supposed to be... so I disconnected the drain hose from the sink and lead it into bucket. Each draining cycle released about 3" into a 5G bucket (or about 1 gallon).

I took the inlet valve off and inspected it. I didnt see any visible signs of clogging or blockages, though there are apparently filters inside those suckers that can get gunked up (I do have calcium rich water).

I also never mentioned here that I have an odd thumping sound that appears to be pump/surge related. Like when the pump is pushing water up and through the spinners. I sounds like back-left of the machine, but its hard to tell. I don't know if thats new or not, but it is apparent to me now. Perhaps because the water level is a bit low?

So to recap:

Positives:
- thermostats are ok
- heater is ok (put old one back in)
- voltage to heater is ok
- timer is advancing
- draining is occuring on queue

Negatives:
- water not heating enough to trigger cycling stat
- water level seems low
- odd thumping sound
- possible valve issue not letting in enough water


So... what to do As I told John... I have the mentality that everything can be fixed. So shopping for a new washer is not on my short list... but it may have to be.

I'm exhausted.
 
  #27  
Old 01-04-10, 08:45 AM
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???

Hey Daddy, I read all of the posts between yourself and Fish, and I am having the same issue. My question is: After having jumped out the cycling (operating) stat the cycle then continued and the timer became unstuck. Is this all I need to know, and does that mean that the cycling stat is bad? If so, do i really need to replace it or can I just leave it jumped? Thanks for being so kind to give your professional advice to Fish. Your posts were very easy to understand and aided in walking me through this whole process.
 
  #28  
Old 01-12-12, 11:35 AM
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Drain hose must be installed to proper height

I had the same problem with my dishwasher and I caused it myself. I moved the drain hose out of the garbage disposal and into a drain in my basement. When I did so the unit no longer worked properly because water would drain out before the dishwasher pumped it out.
I found the original installation instructions and it said the drain hose must rise 20" from floor for proper operation.
I raised it 20" and it worked better but would get stuck at the same point as in this thread.
The "Heating Water" light would come on but, when I opened the door and looked, there was little or no water in the washer at this point.
I raised the hose 30" before routing it into the drain and the water stayed in until the unit was finished washing and it no longer got stuck.
Hope this helps someone.
 
  #29  
Old 02-05-12, 12:33 AM
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The contacts that control the heater get hot. Mine got so hot they melted the timer cam(bump) so that the heater circuit never turned on to heat the water. New timer fixed it. Second time I bought a new washer.
 
  #30  
Old 10-27-13, 07:13 AM
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Same issue....

FishNY, what did you end up doing? I have the same issue with the timer stopping on the Rinse-heater is working during the Dry cycle so I tried a new timer, same issue. Looking at the stats now but wondering if the push-button control board could be the culprit. Curious to know if you fixed this or wound up purchasing a new unit.

John
 
  #31  
Old 10-28-13, 04:49 AM
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  #32  
Old 11-07-13, 07:24 PM
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Found the issue: The door handle has two switches, one on each side of the handle. One of these switches was cracked. I replaced both and now the dishwasher runs completely through all cycles without stopping.
 
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