Kenmore Ultra Wash Dishwasher won't drain

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  #1  
Old 04-21-09, 09:42 AM
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Kenmore Ultra Wash Dishwasher won't drain

Model # 665 13724K601
It runs fine, the dishes are clean when it is finished, but if I happen to there and ready to reload it when a run finishes I see that there are still 2 plus inches of water in the bottom of the dishwasher. Not terribly gross or stinky water but not clear and clean either. Who knows how long it has been like this because usually I run it before bed and don't empty it till mid morning. Over time the water will eventually, very slowly drain away. I ran the dishwasher last night (10:00pm) and this morning (7:00 am) there was still water in the bottom. It is mostly gone now (11:25 am). When I first noticed the problem 2 days ago, I tried using the cancel/drain button... I heard sounds for the process to happen (sounded normal so far as I could tell) yet when it was done I opened the door and all the water was still there.

The catch is that while the dishwasher is not even 2 years old, the house/plumbing is ancient so many of the fixes that I read here on DIY regarding the line into the drain of the disposal do not apply to me. The dishwasher does not hook into the disposal/undersink drain. From the basement I am pretty sure I can see the dishwasher drain, about 2 feet from the kitchen drain (which would make sense), and it has it's very own gooseneck trap before joining up with the sewer pipe heading out of the house. I am pretty diligent about rinsing off the dishes before putting them in there. Since there appears to be no easy access for cleaning out the pipe, is there some solution I can run in my dishwasher on a cycle that might help to relieve any blockage? Or maybe I could put it in the bottom of the dishwasher along with a couple of inches of hot water and then hit the cancel drain button to send it... very very slowly seeping into the drain pipe?

In just 2 days time I see the problem getting worse so I would like to be proactive before it disables my use of the dishwasher. Thanks in advance for any help.
 
  #2  
Old 04-21-09, 11:37 AM
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Try running the machine with the drain disconnected from the house piping and draining into a 5 gallon bucket. You'll know quite quickly if the issue is the machine or the house piping. et us know what you find.
 
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Old 04-22-09, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by daddyjohn View Post
Try running the machine with the drain disconnected from the house piping and draining into a 5 gallon bucket. You'll know quite quickly if the issue is the machine or the house piping. et us know what you find.
I'm not quite sure what that means or how to do it? Am I pulling the dishwasher out from under the counter where it is installed to make this disconnection?

Thanks
 
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Old 04-22-09, 03:14 PM
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No- you want the other end of the drain hose, where it connects into the house plumbing. Leave the DW intact. Normaly you find the drain hose for the dishwasher connected to the house plumbing under the sink, either it goes into a tube on a garbage disposal or into the sink drain piping. It sounds like your connection might be in the basement? Where I'm going with this is you want to know whether the DW is draining itself properly or is there an issue with the house plumbing.
 
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Old 04-22-09, 07:58 PM
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Thanks for trying to help me sort this out. We are so tight financially and I would hate to waste my money on a service call if we can handle the fix or to call the wrong service provider and end up paying two charges unnecessairly.

You are correct in that we do not have any dishwasher connections that run under the sink to either the sink drain or the disposal drain. In the basement all the visible plumbuing under the dishwasher is "hard plumbing lines" for the house itself not the dishwasher. We do not have visual access to any of the dishwasher's hoses. We looked into pulling the dishwasher, but it is screwed in to the counter top via a couple of brackets and appears to be screwed in to the cabinets to either side of it as well. Should we disconnect the "hard plumbing line" connection in the basement that is closest to the ceiling/dishwasher, place a bucket under the opening and then try the cancel drain feature again? Or should we unscrew the brackets etc and pull the dishwasher to try to gain access to the dishwasher's drain connection?

Thanks again for your help in trying to sort this out.
 
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Old 04-23-09, 06:03 AM
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Have you taken the bottom plate off the front of the machine and looked under the dishwasher? There should be a hose at the drain connection. Follow that hose. It would be very unusual if the DW drain were hard piped at the machine although I suppose they could have plumbed the hose into hard pipe underneath the machine. I wouldn't cut any lines in the basement unless you know exactly which is which. What type of material is the hard piping? PVC, copper, or?
 
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Old 04-24-09, 07:07 AM
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Well the problem is not solved but it is far more clear. I removed the access panel below the dishwasher. The view is very small and cramped because we have one of those units that is very deep in the washing compartment with a very small kick plate area so I can see three different hoses and can only see the point of origination on one of them. So I got out the manual and looked up instillation to try and better understand what I was looking at. There are 4 different instillation recommendations. The 1st 3 involve variations of what to do with disposals and air gaps, the 4th is what to do if neither of those openings exist. Yet the plumber who installed our dishwasher did not follow the directions at all! It clearly states that you must drain into the sink drain pipe and that the connection be above the trap and at least 20" ABOVE the floor where the dishwasher is installed. Instead he fed straight into an old dishwasher connection that went straight to the basement completely BELOW where the dishwasher is installed. Is it just my imagination or is the choice to not drain the dishwasher the way that was recommended possibly resulting in the eventual improper drainage that we currently have?

Without pulling the dishwasher, I cannot get to the part of the hose that attaches to the house plumbing, nor can I tell for sure which hose is going there. There is junction in one of the hoses with a rubber connector which reads "drain" on it. I was considering disconnecting at this spot and placing both ends, since I cannot tell which way the water will be flowing, into a shallow pan and hitting cancel drain to see what happens.

Or should I just contact the plumber who did the work and tell him he has to come out and hook it up properly like we paid him to do in the first place?
 
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Old 04-24-09, 08:36 AM
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Have you always had standing water in the machine? The reason they want you to pipe to the sink drain is to ensure that the DW drain connection is ahead of the sink trap. The traps function is to prevent sewer gasses from traveling backwards into the house. It sounds like you have a trap in the basement [the gooseneck connection]. It's always best to follow the manufacturer's recommendations. I was wondering about why the water seeps, but now I get it. How is the DW connected to the gooseneck in the basement? Hose? Hard pipe? That is where you want to disconnect and then run the drainage into a bucket. As for the plumber, he or she will balk and claim there is nothing wrong with their work especially if the machine was ok for the first couple years. A compromise might be to install a drain hose that rises up the 20" and then turns and goes into the basement conection.
 
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Old 04-24-09, 01:18 PM
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I really do not know what the connection looks like. I can see where hard pipe ?black PVC" is connected to the goose neck in the basement and that goose neck connects to a pipe that goes to our sewer pipe. I can see hoses under the dishwash by removing the access panel, one of them clearly to the botton of the dishwashers working parts. There is rubber connector marked drain that is merely allowing additional length of hose to added and past that connector the hose snakes back out of sight. I gently pulled on this hose to see if there was enough extra hose to allow me to see the next connection and where it might hooks up but there was bascially no slack to pull out. I cannot see any other hose connects. So I cannot see the drain hose's final connect to anything. The drain hose snakes back out of sight towards the rear of the dishwasher which is approximately where the location of the hard pipe that is exposed in the basement would be located.

I can try removing that connector between the hose and the hose extention, I can pull the dishwasher and try to gain access to the point where the hose connects to the drain or I could try to use a wrench in the basement to see if that PVC joint would let go. I am guessing the basement pipe is very old so I am a bit afraid it might break if I try that 3rd option.
 
  #10  
Old 04-24-09, 08:34 PM
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How much length of the black plastic pipe do you have to work with in the basement? Does it seem like he wall of the pipe is thick or thin?
 
 

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