Dishwasher MELTING Vinyl Siding!!

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Old 01-13-10, 07:28 AM
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Dishwasher MELTING Vinyl Siding!!

I just had my aluminum siding removed and vinyl siding installed about 5 months ago. Yesyerday, I noticed that the siding is melting and it is exactly where the dishwasher is located.

The siding is still in one piece, but is severely rippled and sagging ...and this is in the middle of a freezing Winter!

Here are some facts:

* I just discovered it yesterday, so it could have happened anytime from 5 months ago from when the siding was installed.

* The dishwasher seems to be working fine; it looks to be about 15 years old.

* It could be a one-time event or a long-term melting, I guess.

* There should be insulation inside the wall between the drywall (behind the dishwasher) and the sheathing/siding.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I've never heard anything like it before!!!

I think what I'm going to do is:

1.) Run a test cycle and go out and check it every 10 minutes to see if it gets severly hot on every cycle (versus a one-time thing).

2.) If it does get super hot, I'll pull the dishwasher and remove the drywall behind it to be sure there's insulation in there like the rest of the house.

ANy other advice or ideas will help ...thank you! -Tony17112acst
 
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Old 01-13-10, 01:47 PM
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Unless you are evacuating the hot water out the back wall instead of the sink or a dedicated drain, sorry, there ain't no way a dishwasher is going to melt your vinyl siding. Check around during the evening to see if there are any sunlight refractions from stationary glass objects, or from close by windows. I believe you have melting caused by sunlight being magnified and pointed at your house.
 
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Old 01-13-10, 01:52 PM
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Like Chandler said, There ain't no way! IF your dishwasher was getting that hot, the washer itself would melt first. How about a BBQ grill close by?
 

Last edited by Tolyn Ironhand; 01-13-10 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 01-13-10, 02:29 PM
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Thank you both for replying.

I did a lot of searching and it seems it's very possible that the melting could be a result of the sun going through some new Low-E windows. I just had some installed on the additi0on that's adjacent to the siding that was installed.

If it IS the window amplifying the sunlight, it's an extraodinary coincidence that the warping/melting of the siding is exactly where the dishwasher is!!

I did run a test cycle and checked the siding with my hand about every 10 seconds and didn't feel a thing. But I did not keep checking whole it was on "dry."

My next step (to put the dishwasher completely out of the equation) is to tape a remote outdoor digital thermometer to the siding and run a cycle. The digital thermometer records the high and low temp for the day, so if it does get really hot, at least the thermometer will record something about the 32 degrees it is outside now. BUT this will not eliminate a one-time problem with the dishwasher ...but it's unlikely I guess.

I'll report back; I am waiting for a pure sunny day to see if the sun focuses on the wapred spot exactly.

-Tony17112acst

P.S. I found out that the siding has a melting point of 185 degrees ...is it possible the dishwasher could heat up like that?
 
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Old 01-13-10, 02:36 PM
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Weird thing is, you may only have a few days where the sun is in the exact juxtaposition to shine exactly through the windows. Dishwasher and siding, not related. Dishwasher problem on the inside, siding on the outside. Good idea to measure the temps. Even if it close to zero, if it is a clear day the sun can still melt the siding. Let us know. Veeeeryyyy interesting.
 
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Old 01-13-10, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Tolyn Ironhand View Post
How about a BBQ grill close by?
I have seen that very thing at rentals. Naturally, nobody knows how it got that way, who did it, or when it happened.
 
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Old 01-13-10, 06:24 PM
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In college rentals, it is usually as Scott said, grills placed against the house. Had one in UGA where they melted the entire porch siding before they smelled it. Now these are our future leaders......think about it. And they were too stupid to move the grill away from the wall.
 
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Old 01-13-10, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by chandler View Post
In college rentals, it is usually as Scott said, grills placed against the house. Had one in UGA where they melted the entire porch siding before they smelled it. Now these are our future leaders......think about it. And they were too stupid to move the grill away from the wall.
Now you are starting to sound like my aged next door neighbor who has nothing good to say about the youngens who are booksmart, but that is as far as it goes. He really gets going once you get him onto such subjects.
 
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Old 01-14-10, 03:56 AM
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Booksmart ain't nothin', standing alone. I think all high school graduates should be required to attend 2 year trade schools and select a "major" course such as carpentry or welding, etc. Once they have finished that, then they can apply to college. At least when they get out of college and can't find a job at Goldman Sachs they can drive nails for a living until things turn around. Nowadays, graduates can't find jobs and just move back with mama and daddy for a few years or join the military.
Military should only be manned by us 60+ year olds. We'd be home by now. Nothing to lose.
But I get off topic. Sorry.
 
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Old 01-14-10, 05:18 AM
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Demaged siding due to window reflection

Re: damaged siding due to window reflection.

If the light is reflected from a casement window, the window glazing will reflect to different locations depending on sash position, so you have to consider not only the possible sun positions but also all the possible reflection paths - I have seen siding beside a window on the same wall damaged by reflection from an open casement's sash.
 
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Old 01-14-10, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by tony17112acst View Post
If it IS the window amplifying the sunlight, it's an extraodinary coincidence that the warping/melting of the siding is exactly where the dishwasher is!!
Actually not. Consider:

It has to occur somehwere, right? If it were behind your refrigerator, you would think it was the fridge(hot compressor). If it was behind the kitchen sink closer to the hot water valve, you would think that was it. If it was behind the stove, you would think that was it. If it was behind wall lights, you would think that was it. If it was behind a wall register, you would think that was it.. Seeeeee?

Now for the funny. When reading your thread title it occured to me not to be washing your vinyl sidng in your dishwasher!
 
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Old 01-15-10, 07:33 AM
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Thanks for all the replies.

I had a sunny day yesterday and BAM from 10:30am - 11:00 am the sun reflects off a new casement window (crank-out stlye) and matches exactly the pattern being melted into the siding!!!

Oh, and by the way, Nooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!! How does this @##$&* happen to me?

This is my home (not a rental) and I just had a sunporch addition added with windows all the way around (and this vinyl siding). The sunlight is reflecting, not shining through, but bouncing off 2 of the windows onto the siding and melting it in the middle of Winter.

Since this is a casement window, the screen is on the INSIDE, so it doesnt help when the sunlight bounces off the outside of the window (I've read that screens help diffuse this problem). I guess I will have to come up with a tailor-made solution to stop the process. I had two addition added to my house. They are peninsulas with about 10 feet between them, which is where this is happening. He took the aluminum siding down right where it's melting. BOY do I wish we hadn't done that now. I could have just painted the aluminum to match the vivyl.

I did a bunch of research online and I found a contractor on an online forum who was looking for people with Mainstreet vinyl siding with colors Granite Grey or Oxford Blue because they two in particular are melting. Guess what was JUST installed on my house with the two additions? Mainstreet Granite Grey siding! www.contractortalk.com/f33/vinyl-siding-melting-46306

So now I wonder if I have a claim against the siding manufacturer as to the quality of the product. I suppose I can get a laser thermometer and take the temp of the siding and see if it's melting below the temp it's supposed to.

Any other thoughts are appreciated!
 

Last edited by tony17112acst; 01-15-10 at 07:55 AM.
  #13  
Old 01-15-10, 07:37 AM
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P.S. Here are two photos:





 

Last edited by tony17112acst; 01-15-10 at 09:24 AM.
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Old 01-15-10, 08:28 AM
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In the top photo with the longest vertical beam of light, do I see horizontal ripples on each lap siding piece? Chandler has heard of this scenario before. I never have. This has been educational to me. Murphy is out to get you at all turns!
 
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Old 01-15-10, 09:26 AM
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Yes, you DO see horizontal ripples ....becuase the sun is melting the vinyl siding.
 
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Old 01-15-10, 09:30 AM
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That is just CRAZY! Seams to me like you would have a claim with the manufacture. Take lots of pictures!

I would like to give a to Chandler for nailing this one!

BTW - Beautiful home Tony!
 
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Old 01-15-10, 12:06 PM
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There were actually a couple of threads on this over the last few years. I'm positive I saw at least one before...ahhh here it is for those interested...http://forum.doityourself.com/lumber...struction.html

It is pretty amazing that the window can concentrate that much solar even in the winter time...and the siding really isn't even that dark.
 
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Old 01-15-10, 02:39 PM
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Sure is good they don't have subdivisions going up in the Sahara Desert, because if there where, the siding could wind up like the witch in the Wizard of Oz!
 
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Old 01-15-10, 03:03 PM
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I used to live/work in central fla and one of the builders I painted for decided to switch from aluminum to vinyl siding on the gables [block homes].The heat build up in the attic caused the vinyl to warp before the house was finished. That was back in the 80's. I don't know if vinyl siding is different today or if other factors were involved - but that builder went back to aluminum siding
 
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Old 01-15-10, 05:51 PM
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Hey, Vic, don't steal my thunder!! I do think we solved this one a few years ago for another poster, and I just remembered it. Odd as it may seem things like this happen. Sure glad we were able to help find the problem. Now, the solution............
 
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Old 01-16-10, 05:57 AM
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With your permission, I would like to use those photos (with photo credits, of course) for an article on vinyl siding problems I'm writing for my web site. For an example of how the photos would be used and credited see:

Dormer, Bay and Chimney Sidewall Kickout Flashings FAQ - Paragon Home Inspections Evanston Chicago IL
 
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Old 01-16-10, 06:59 AM
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Michael: Absolutely; please feel free to use the photos anyway you wish ...no crediting is necessary. You mentioned casement windows and sure enough, that's what I have. And I did open and close the window to see where the amplified light goes and I crank it out. The photo with the sunlight focussed was taken with my phone camer and is poor quality. On the next sunny day, I will take a much clearer photo and substitute it in the posting above.

Tolin: Thank you for the compliment. Unfortunately that nice view of the house is from the rear ...the one no one sees! It's a plain ranch home and I decided to add 2 additions: one has multi-level sunrooms (4-season) and the other is a new master suite and gameroom below. I did everything myself except I did higher a builder to frame, roof, insulate and side. HEre's a photo of before and after.

 
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Old 01-16-10, 07:09 AM
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I think the updates that you have done look very nice. Yes, I would agree the back looks better than the front but only the most important people will see it. YOU! I really like the stone work you put on. I'm am thinking of doing something similar next summer. I will make one suggestion: You should do the stone on the chimney as well. It will help tie it in.
 
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Old 01-16-10, 07:33 PM
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Thanks! I look forward to the additional pictures.
 
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Old 01-19-10, 10:27 PM
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Tolyn,

Yes, we left the chimney brick because it ties into all the brick accent we have around the grey stone. If you can see the horizontal liners going all the way from one end of the front to the other. Also every window within the stone has brick under it (hard to see in the photos). We did heavily consider it and still may choose to stone it.
 
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Old 01-20-10, 05:06 AM
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Ah...that makes sense. Couldn't really see that from the pictures.
 
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Old 01-20-10, 08:20 AM
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I put a better looking photo in the group above. It includes the two windows that are melting the siding.

Going inside and covering them up totally does nothing; the reflection is a result of the exterior, so a screen will not help in this case.

When I put my hand on the siding in direct sunlight (with no replactions) the siding is really hot. Then the spot with the reflection is super-hot. I didn't know siding would get that hot in direct sunlight. It may be this color and manufacturer too.
 
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Old 01-21-10, 06:25 AM
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Thanks for the additional photos
 
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