Kenmore washer still doesn't spin (after replacing coupler and clutch)
#1
01-14-14, 04:41 PM
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Kenmore washer still doesn't spin (after replacing coupler and clutch)
Have a Kenmore Series 80 Super Cap, Mod 11023822100. Washing machine doesn't spin sometimes, actually most of the time.
I didn't think it was the clutch or the motor coupler but I just got done replacing both. The old parts were a little worn but nothing to state they were broken. That didn't fix it.
I don't think it is the lid switch. When the washer is on the spin cycle, I hear the washer humming like it is supposed to be spinning. It just isn't. If I open and close the lid, it starts spinning... but also if I stop the washer by pushing the timer in, and pull it back out without touching the lid, it starts spinning also.
So I hear it hum like it is supposed to be spinning.
Opening the lid and closing will start it spinning.
Leaving the lid closed, don't open it. Stop and Start the washer and it will start spinning.
Any ideas? I just put new parts in and now it looks like i have to buy a new one.
I didn't think it was the clutch or the motor coupler but I just got done replacing both. The old parts were a little worn but nothing to state they were broken. That didn't fix it.
I don't think it is the lid switch. When the washer is on the spin cycle, I hear the washer humming like it is supposed to be spinning. It just isn't. If I open and close the lid, it starts spinning... but also if I stop the washer by pushing the timer in, and pull it back out without touching the lid, it starts spinning also.
So I hear it hum like it is supposed to be spinning.
Opening the lid and closing will start it spinning.
Leaving the lid closed, don't open it. Stop and Start the washer and it will start spinning.
Any ideas? I just put new parts in and now it looks like i have to buy a new one.
#2
01-14-14, 04:51 PM
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Welcome to the forums.
If the coupler was bad you would have no spin or agitate but the tub would drain.
You need to fill the tub..... use a small load (low water level) advance it thru the wash cycle until it just starts to drain. Let it drain. Watch the timer. In about two minutes you should see it advance to the rinse cycle. The washer should completely go dead for a few seconds and then start back up in spin. (the timer does the same thing as opening the lid). If it doesn't go dead but just sits there humming and draining.... the timer is defective.
If the coupler was bad you would have no spin or agitate but the tub would drain.
You need to fill the tub..... use a small load (low water level) advance it thru the wash cycle until it just starts to drain. Let it drain. Watch the timer. In about two minutes you should see it advance to the rinse cycle. The washer should completely go dead for a few seconds and then start back up in spin. (the timer does the same thing as opening the lid). If it doesn't go dead but just sits there humming and draining.... the timer is defective.
#3
01-14-14, 05:23 PM
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Not sure I'm fully understanding but I'll report my findings.
After the wash cycle, I believe it sits there for 2 minutes. Then it goes to the rinse cycle (which dumps in water and starts to spin). At the rinse cycle, it was dumping in water but it wasn't spinning. I closed the lid and it started spinning. As far as the timer goes, it advances though normally all the stages.
Also if this is the part you think I will need to replace at $120 I'll just get a new washer. At this point more than $100 isn't worth it for me to be guessing at parts.
Whirlpool 661649 Timer - AppliancePartsPros.com
After the wash cycle, I believe it sits there for 2 minutes. Then it goes to the rinse cycle (which dumps in water and starts to spin). At the rinse cycle, it was dumping in water but it wasn't spinning. I closed the lid and it started spinning. As far as the timer goes, it advances though normally all the stages.
Also if this is the part you think I will need to replace at $120 I'll just get a new washer. At this point more than $100 isn't worth it for me to be guessing at parts.
Whirlpool 661649 Timer - AppliancePartsPros.com
#4
01-14-14, 05:54 PM
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You still didn't say whether the motor was pausing or not after the 2 minute drain. Leave lid closed and listen to the machine during drain. After the 2 minute drain, the motor must pause for a few seconds and then restart. If it's not doing that, then the timer is bad. The pause is to shift the gearcase out of neutral. This is a decent Whirlpool 3-speed direct drive washer and is far better than anything you can buy today. It is worth fixing. Iv'e spent a couple hundred on my older GE and will continue to do so or "upgrade" to a used Whirlpool direct drive rather than buy any of the junk they are selling nowadays. (except for Speed Queen $800).
#5
01-14-14, 06:04 PM
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I closed the lid and it started spinning
Fairbank is right.... that is a good machine. Made by Whirlpool.
I have the same model and will keep it until the tub rusts thru.
I've been thru a clutch, a timer, a coupling kit and a set of dogs. Not too bad with the amount of laundry it's done.
#6
01-14-14, 06:50 PM
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I'm uploading a vid right now. There is no 2 minute pause after a quick wash, but there is a pause. The washing machine drains while it should be spinning and it isn't. I stopped it and started it to show that it spins as soon as I start it again. If you need me to get a video after it stops spinning and drains I will do a load of laundry tomorrow and get that. Check this out in the meantime but still may be processing the vid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDYQ_N7Ho1E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDYQ_N7Ho1E
#7
01-14-14, 07:40 PM
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The washer is working normally. Your not getting it. Nobody said anything about a 2 minute pause. After agitation stops, drain without spin will start and run for 2 full minutes regardless of how long it takes to actually drain the water. Then the motor will pause and then start again at which point it will spin and spray and continue to drain. In your video, drain started at 0:39. At 2:39 motor paused and then started again with spin and spray. It is working as normal.
Eric
Eric
#8
01-15-14, 03:31 AM
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How can it be working normally when I stop it and start it, during the drain cycle, it will spin during the drain? The washing machine still isn't spinning the water out at the last spin cycle also. When the entire cycle is done, clothes are soaking wet and I have to redo the spin cycle.
During the final spin cycle, all I hear is a hum sometimes. I have to go and open and close the lid or stop and start the machine in order for the final spin to work.
Also I use the normal wash cycle and my wife uses the perminant press cycle. We both experience having to re-do spin cycles because clothes are soaking wet when the cycle is done and have to re-spin them. Basically wash is done, have to turn the knob back to spin in order for it to spin the water out of the clothes.
I will take another video when I get home from work this afternoon of an un-interrupted cycle.
I think I will order a timer. I can return it if it doesn't fix the issue.
During the final spin cycle, all I hear is a hum sometimes. I have to go and open and close the lid or stop and start the machine in order for the final spin to work.
Also I use the normal wash cycle and my wife uses the perminant press cycle. We both experience having to re-do spin cycles because clothes are soaking wet when the cycle is done and have to re-spin them. Basically wash is done, have to turn the knob back to spin in order for it to spin the water out of the clothes.
I will take another video when I get home from work this afternoon of an un-interrupted cycle.
I think I will order a timer. I can return it if it doesn't fix the issue.
Last edited by jackal2001; 01-15-14 at 03:59 AM.
#9
01-15-14, 04:05 AM
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I know you replaced clutch but check this
Look inside cabinet about 6 inches from floor you you may see a streak of oil. If there you need a gearcase top seal, clutch and drive coupler. lean washer back against wall to look under it.
Look inside cabinet about 6 inches from floor you you may see a streak of oil. If there you need a gearcase top seal, clutch and drive coupler. lean washer back against wall to look under it.
#10
01-15-14, 04:08 AM
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There was no leaking oil on the floor when I moved the washer.
Going to work now. Be back this evening with another video.
Going to work now. Be back this evening with another video.
#11
01-15-14, 05:53 AM
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"How can it be working normally when I stop it and start it, during the drain cycle, it will spin during the drain?"
Because that's how it works. The gearcase is in neutral when it starts to drain. That means the motor runs in the spin direction but it doesn't spin because gearcase is in neutral. The act of stopping/starting the motor allows the gearcase to shift out of neutral. The washer is draining the entire time it's in drain/spin. If the motor doesn't pause after drain, then it will just stay in neutral. The pause is done by the timer. If it doesn't pause, the timer is bad but in your video, it did pause. If it pauses but still doesn't start spinning then either there's a problem with the gearcase neutral drain mechanism, the clutch is slipping or there's another problem with the basket drive. I would run the machine with the cabinet removed and lid switch bypassed. At the point where the motor pauses after drain and then starts again, if it won't spin, observe the clutch hub. If it's not spinning, you have a gearcase problem.
Because that's how it works. The gearcase is in neutral when it starts to drain. That means the motor runs in the spin direction but it doesn't spin because gearcase is in neutral. The act of stopping/starting the motor allows the gearcase to shift out of neutral. The washer is draining the entire time it's in drain/spin. If the motor doesn't pause after drain, then it will just stay in neutral. The pause is done by the timer. If it doesn't pause, the timer is bad but in your video, it did pause. If it pauses but still doesn't start spinning then either there's a problem with the gearcase neutral drain mechanism, the clutch is slipping or there's another problem with the basket drive. I would run the machine with the cabinet removed and lid switch bypassed. At the point where the motor pauses after drain and then starts again, if it won't spin, observe the clutch hub. If it's not spinning, you have a gearcase problem.
#12
01-15-14, 06:14 AM
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When I get home I will take another video. The timer goes though each step, pauses, etc. On the final spin cycle, you can hear a loud humming sound, I know the tub isn't spinning. But I hear this loud humming thoughout other cycles, such as the rinse cylce which the tub should be spinning, correct? All I do is open and close the lid and it starts spinning. If I just ignore the humming, after it shuts off, the clothes are soaking wet and I have to put it back on spin.
This is going on 12 years old. If it isn't the timer, I'm going to trash it. I'm not going to be troubleshooting transmission problems.
I was thinking something gear related also. The problem with that is every time I manually put it back on spin, it works. Or if I just open and close the lid during the spin, it works. Even if it is in the spin cycle, I just push the lid interlock a few times, it continues to start and stop to spin every time, never failing to start spinning, no weird noises, etc.
Also here is something else I tried. I heard the washer just making the humming noise and I knew it wasn't spinning on the final spin cycle. It wasn't vibrating either like it would if the tub was spinning. I waited until the spin was done by the timer. I then turned the timer all the way around back to spin, turned on, and the washer started spinning.
Someone else posted a similar issue where it wouldn't spin out the water but if you turned the dial back to spin it would work. They suggested a timer replacement. No idea if it fixed it.
I really appreciate all the help guys. Stay tuned.
P.S. If I attempt to remove the outer casing and bypass the lid switch, can I run the entire wash cycle without any water hooked up or do I need to have it fill with water to test.
This is going on 12 years old. If it isn't the timer, I'm going to trash it. I'm not going to be troubleshooting transmission problems.
I was thinking something gear related also. The problem with that is every time I manually put it back on spin, it works. Or if I just open and close the lid during the spin, it works. Even if it is in the spin cycle, I just push the lid interlock a few times, it continues to start and stop to spin every time, never failing to start spinning, no weird noises, etc.
Also here is something else I tried. I heard the washer just making the humming noise and I knew it wasn't spinning on the final spin cycle. It wasn't vibrating either like it would if the tub was spinning. I waited until the spin was done by the timer. I then turned the timer all the way around back to spin, turned on, and the washer started spinning.
Someone else posted a similar issue where it wouldn't spin out the water but if you turned the dial back to spin it would work. They suggested a timer replacement. No idea if it fixed it.
I really appreciate all the help guys. Stay tuned.
P.S. If I attempt to remove the outer casing and bypass the lid switch, can I run the entire wash cycle without any water hooked up or do I need to have it fill with water to test.
#13
01-15-14, 07:23 AM
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You must run it in agitate mode for at least 10 seconds as that is what sets the gearcase up for neutral drain. Many of these washers have a dry agitate function in which the last 2 minutes of the agitate cycle, it will agitate without any water (for testing purposes). I do not see this on the timer chart for your washer so yours may not have it, but you can try. You would have to figure out where on the dial to set it for this. Just a click or two before where it normally stops agitating. Otherwise, you must let it fill and agitate for at least 10 seconds but then stop it and advance to drain for testing. The only way to determine if this is the gearcase or not, is to remove the cabinet to observe the clutch hub. Even if the gearcase turns out to be the problem, it's worth replacing at $184 versus buying a new piece of junk. It's not that hard to replace.
#14
01-15-14, 07:27 AM
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Yes I know they are almost $200 but the machine I was looking to get to replace it would be the LG WT1101CW. I know there are always going to be horror stories about washing machines. How do I know what is going to be junk and what isn't. At least this was the highest rated washer on consumer reports and also gets really good online reviews from places like home depot. Are these new washing machines really that bad?
#15
01-15-14, 08:10 AM
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For me, I just want a washer that fills with water, agitates, drains and spins, and I want one that I can easily repair if necessary. That Whirlpool direct drive fits the bill. They don't make them anymore other than for commercial units or the stacked washer/dryer units. New washers are under very strict government regulations regarding water and energy usage. They use very little water, water temps are dumbed down, and you must use HE detergent in very small quantities. Everybodys drawn to these electronic wiz-bang load sensing washers with blue lights and cool tunes. I can't really comment on the reliability of them because they are too new to say. I do know that the Whirlpool direct drive replacement, the belt drive VMW is a piece of junk and has had many problems including faulty electronic control boards. That new LG washer is electronically controlled, has water flow sensors, vibration sensors, speed sensors, lid locks...etc. Just a lot more stuff to fail as far as I'm concerned. I'm a keep it simple type, to each his own. Anyway, look forward to what you find with yours.
#16
01-15-14, 08:24 AM
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OK. I'm gonna try pulling the cover off the thing tonight when I get home and try video taping the cycle with the cover off. I'll see if I can get all that done. Never pulled the cover off yet.
#17
01-15-14, 08:52 AM
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Cabinet removal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVF0h1MQdBE
Lid switch bypass: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAnQ6Ovvnuc
Lid switch bypass: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAnQ6Ovvnuc
#18
01-15-14, 04:55 PM
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Took the cabinet off, bypassed the lid switch, watched 3 loads of laundry. I can now say I want that time back. Just like watching paint dry.
No failures of any kind. Final spin cycle worked every time.
So let me see if I have a complete understanding of how this works.
1. Washer stops agitating, and pauses.
2. Washer starts to drain, motor spins, motor coupler spins, transmission is in neutral.
3. After complete drain, washer pauses
4. Transmission is taken out of neutral, motor spins, coupler spins, clutch engages, basket spins.
The only thing I can possibly think of is the clutch I replaced actually fixed the machine because I thought it was still broken because it didn't spin during step 2 above. Either that or the transmission is slowly going and isn't being taken out of neutral sometimes. It made the same humming sound it makes at the end of a drain cycle where you can hear the motor spin, but not the basket (this was before the clutch replacement).
I'll have to wait and see if the final spin cycle fails again in the future. Since I have it back together I can only assume the transmission would still be stuck in neutral if it makes a loud motor noise but the basket isn't spinning.
Now I have another problem. When I had the cover off the wife saw all the brown mold/goo or whatever on the inside of the washing machine tub. Now she wants me to get a spanner wrench and pull the basket out to clean it. I told her just to buy come washing machine cleaner. We always leave the top open to air dry. She always used to put in liquid fabric softner until we started to get brown flakes in the wash and I told her to stop. Is all this brown gook the result of fabric softner or is this normal?
No failures of any kind. Final spin cycle worked every time.
So let me see if I have a complete understanding of how this works.
1. Washer stops agitating, and pauses.
2. Washer starts to drain, motor spins, motor coupler spins, transmission is in neutral.
3. After complete drain, washer pauses
4. Transmission is taken out of neutral, motor spins, coupler spins, clutch engages, basket spins.
The only thing I can possibly think of is the clutch I replaced actually fixed the machine because I thought it was still broken because it didn't spin during step 2 above. Either that or the transmission is slowly going and isn't being taken out of neutral sometimes. It made the same humming sound it makes at the end of a drain cycle where you can hear the motor spin, but not the basket (this was before the clutch replacement).
I'll have to wait and see if the final spin cycle fails again in the future. Since I have it back together I can only assume the transmission would still be stuck in neutral if it makes a loud motor noise but the basket isn't spinning.
Now I have another problem. When I had the cover off the wife saw all the brown mold/goo or whatever on the inside of the washing machine tub. Now she wants me to get a spanner wrench and pull the basket out to clean it. I told her just to buy come washing machine cleaner. We always leave the top open to air dry. She always used to put in liquid fabric softner until we started to get brown flakes in the wash and I told her to stop. Is all this brown gook the result of fabric softner or is this normal?
Last edited by jackal2001; 01-15-14 at 05:23 PM.
#19
01-15-14, 06:38 PM
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Every click of the timer is a two minute step. So when the washer drains..... it allows two minutes for the tub to drain. It doesn't matter what size load you did. It always allows the two minutes. So if you are doing a small load there will be a good amount of time the motor will be running and nothing is happening. Technically it's still draining but no water is left to pump out.
At the end of that two minute drain cycle is when you need the pause.
Grunge in a machine is usually soap, grease and fabric softener residue. There are several good cleaners. I used the Tide one with good results.
At the end of that two minute drain cycle is when you need the pause.
Grunge in a machine is usually soap, grease and fabric softener residue. There are several good cleaners. I used the Tide one with good results.
#20
01-15-14, 07:18 PM
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thanks. the only thing i can do from here on out is keep and eye on it. if i hear it just making the motor sound and not spinning on the final spin cycle i guess I'd have to order a transmission. the timer seems to be doing its job correctly pausing between each cycle. I actually video taped the whole thing but I didn't think anyone would want to watch it because nothing went wrong.
#21
01-16-14, 04:24 AM
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While the timer may click every two minutes, that really has nothing to do with the timing of the cycles. They could have made the drain period any length of time they wanted. You'll notice that the time between when agitation stops and drain starts is only a few seconds. The timer motor and the internal cam spool that operates the switches are always advancing at a slow rate, but the dial does not. The dial moves til it clicks and stops.
#22
01-16-14, 05:29 AM
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OK I'm working from home today and decided to throw another load in and it failed to spin during the last cycle. I'm going to upload the video from my cell phone.
#23
01-16-14, 05:42 AM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK5Huca1rzc
I started the video as soon as the agitator stopped moving in the final rinse cycle. So about the 2 minute mark the washer started to drain. Something is wrong at this point because it should only be a few seconds before starting to drain. I believe after the drain cycle, the washer should again pause before going into the spin cycle but it never does. The timer knob keeps advancing but it never seems to get out of the drain cycle.
I also went back to my other video when everything worked properly and after the final agitor cycle, it only paused for about 10 seconds and the water started to drain. It took about 2 minutes for the drain cycle to complete. It then paused for about 3 seconds, started to spin and put in a little bit of water, then continue to spin completely dry. That is the correct cycle.
The above video shows it pause for about 2 minutes before starting to drain. Times are not consistant with my correct video and never shows it pause, start to spin and dump a little bit of water in and spin.
It seems going back and forth to my other video, the times are not consistant, not to mention it never paused after the drain to go to the final spin cycle.
So I just ordered a new timer as I am guessing this is the problem. I wanted to get the order in this morning because I think I will get it by tomorrow. Hopefully I am correct and this will fix the problem.
A full wash video with the cover off I posted here if you need to compare. This cycle didn't have any issues. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6aMqXZiAlo
I started the video as soon as the agitator stopped moving in the final rinse cycle. So about the 2 minute mark the washer started to drain. Something is wrong at this point because it should only be a few seconds before starting to drain. I believe after the drain cycle, the washer should again pause before going into the spin cycle but it never does. The timer knob keeps advancing but it never seems to get out of the drain cycle.
I also went back to my other video when everything worked properly and after the final agitor cycle, it only paused for about 10 seconds and the water started to drain. It took about 2 minutes for the drain cycle to complete. It then paused for about 3 seconds, started to spin and put in a little bit of water, then continue to spin completely dry. That is the correct cycle.
The above video shows it pause for about 2 minutes before starting to drain. Times are not consistant with my correct video and never shows it pause, start to spin and dump a little bit of water in and spin.
It seems going back and forth to my other video, the times are not consistant, not to mention it never paused after the drain to go to the final spin cycle.
So I just ordered a new timer as I am guessing this is the problem. I wanted to get the order in this morning because I think I will get it by tomorrow. Hopefully I am correct and this will fix the problem.
A full wash video with the cover off I posted here if you need to compare. This cycle didn't have any issues. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6aMqXZiAlo
Last edited by jackal2001; 01-16-14 at 07:07 AM.
#24
05-20-14, 01:52 PM
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Did the timer replacement solve the problem?
Dear Jackel2001,
I have a Kenmore Model 110.82671110 washer that seems to have the same problem as the one you described.
The million dollar question: Did the timer replacement solve the problem you had?
If so, I'm going to order a timer and replace mine as well.
I found the following timer from repairclinic.com that seems to be compatible with my machine:
Timer 661549 Order now for same day shipping. 365 day return policy. RepairClinic.com
although it's possible this part is similar/identical to the one you used, which I think was:
Whirlpool 661649 Timer - AppliancePartsPros.com
Any additional suggestions or tips would be appreciated.
Thank you.
I have a Kenmore Model 110.82671110 washer that seems to have the same problem as the one you described.
The million dollar question: Did the timer replacement solve the problem you had?
If so, I'm going to order a timer and replace mine as well.
I found the following timer from repairclinic.com that seems to be compatible with my machine:
Timer 661549 Order now for same day shipping. 365 day return policy. RepairClinic.com
although it's possible this part is similar/identical to the one you used, which I think was:
Whirlpool 661649 Timer - AppliancePartsPros.com
Any additional suggestions or tips would be appreciated.
Thank you.
