kenmore washer needs second spin cycle

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  #1  
Old 06-20-14, 07:23 PM
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kenmore washer needs second spin cycle

Read a bunch before posting but unclear as to what my issue is.
model 111 23812100
As stated, washer usually needs two cycles to get clothes wrung out enough for dryer.
Replaced clutch, didn't notice any oil on inside of cabinet.
Replaced lid switch.
Checked water pump by timing how long it took to drain full tub, 1 minute.

One thing i just did was stopped machine during spin cycle and was able to hold tub from spinning when putting pencil back into lid switch.
How much resistance should it take?

Unit pumps out water DURING spin cycle not before, don't know if normal.

No strange sounds during any cycles like grinding or banging.
Checked speeds of gentle and normal and speed changes accordingly.

Any ideas?

Eric
 
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  #2  
Old 06-21-14, 01:47 AM
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2 rinse cycles or 2 spin cycles? From a dead stop with dry hands it will not take to much to stop basket. Hard for me to tell you haw much it will take to hold. Sounds like clutch but you already replaced it.Put a normal load in washer and get wet (start agitating) stop, open lid ansd hold lid switch and watch to see if washer starts spinning right.
 
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Old 06-21-14, 05:02 AM
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Where did you get the clutch from? Should only buy genuine Whirlpool FSP parts. There are a lot of cheap knockoff parts that are junk. Washer should drain for 2 minutes without spinning, then start spinning while continuing to drain.
 
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Old 06-21-14, 03:00 PM
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Needs two Spin cycles as stated in title.
Seems to spin at decent speed so I suspect it could be the fact that water isn't draining before the spin cycle.The washer pauses for a few minutes before spinning and draining.
Clutch was bought online from reputable supplier. Not OEM but assume good quality.Since it spins at decent speed I assume it's working properly.

Could it be a faulty timer since this is what tells the washer what to do?
I always assumed bad timer would be more obvious like when I replaced my dryer's last year. Normal cycle just didn't work, worked when using permanent press cycle though.
Spins for about 5 minutes at full speed but some of that time is spent pumping water out.
How to check timer?
 
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Old 06-21-14, 05:00 PM
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Dose the washer drain before starting the spin cycle? Should agitate, stop, drain ,than spin.
 
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Old 06-22-14, 10:52 AM
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Pugsl, the washer goes from agitating to a pause then starts to spin, then I see water level going down while it continues to spin.
On other site there was a suggestion of basket drive being bad.
Any thoughts on this?
 
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Old 06-22-14, 12:01 PM
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It has nothing to do with the basket drive. If after agitation stops, spin begins right away, the neutral drain mechanism in the transmission is faulty. This is actually fairly common in older machines and is of no great consequence unless it is causing water to splash over the top of the tub on full loads. You said that the washer pauses a "few minutes" before spinning and draining. Definitely something wrong if that is the case as it should only pause for a few seconds. If the clothes are overly wet after the final spin cycle, either it's not spinning fast enough or not long enough or it is inadvertently spraying water when it shouldn't during the spin cycle. Speed can be checked with a simple optical tachometer and should be about 620rpm on high speed. If it's spinning too slow and the clutch is ok, the drive block may be worn and slipping. This part locks the basket to the basket drive.
 
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Old 06-22-14, 07:42 PM
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fairbank, Not sure about drive block. When I had it apart last week it looked to be in good shape with no real wear noticed. Also I can't rotate basket clockwise and it's very hard to turn counterclockwise. It seemed easier to hold basket last week after replacing clutch and running a spin cycle. Harder to turn by hand.
Also didn't actually time the pause between cycles, seemed like a few minutes but maybe I'll do a load and do an actual timing of each cycle to see.
As for spraying water during spin cycle, I didn't see this.
 
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Old 06-23-14, 05:29 AM
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Drive block wear wold of been seen inside where the block goes into notches in basket drive. Sometimes basket drive the teeth will bend but usually new block will make it work.
Be sure to check pauses between cycles but slow spin speeds usually mean clutch.
 
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Old 06-23-14, 07:48 AM
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Saw your post over on the applianceblog forum. I disagree with some of what Jake is telling you. I won't argue the point over there because Jake and the other moderators get VERY upset when you counter anything they tell you. He says, "those brake pad springs will wear out and not release the brake properly". Well, there is only one spring and it's function is to apply pressure to the two brake shoes when not in spin mode. It has nothing really to do with releasing the brakes. In spin mode, a tab on the clutch band contacts and rotates the brake cam driver on the bottom of the basket drive. The brake cam driver rotates the brake cam which pulls the two brake shoes away from the brake drum (against the brake spring pressure). A weak spring will not prevent the brakes from releasing properly. All that said, it is still possible that the brake shoes are gummed up and not moving well enough to fully release. That can easily be fixed without replacing the whole basket drive. The only way to be certain that the basket is spinning too slowly is to measure it's speed. That's why I carry my optical tachometer.
 
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Old 06-23-14, 04:31 PM
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So been racking my brain and reading online till my brain hurts.
Decided to go through the basics again and recheck some things.
Looked at old clutch, seemed fine at first. some dust in it but not bad.
Took pad assembly out inspected very closely and noticed not just dust but oily dust and some glazing.
So I lifted washer up and did another visual. I now notice a faint line of clean oil on inside of cabinet. uh oh.
I think I'm done. Time for transmission.
Don't think I'm spending almost $200 for parts n shipping.
Doesn't explain why new clutch didn't seem to help.
Unless someone can give a good reason I think this thread is done.
Thanks everyone for their help.

Eric
 
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Old 06-23-14, 04:46 PM
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Seal for transmission is less than 10$. You already know how to get it out and google whirlpool transmission repair and there are good video's on how to do repair. Your washer is a lot better than new ones.
 
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Old 06-23-14, 04:48 PM
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Really? $10
I'm looking into this Pugsl.
Seems like anything new is at least $500 for a decent one.

Will look into seal kit, thanks
 
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Old 06-23-14, 05:47 PM
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So might order shaft seal pn 3349985
Lists for about $12 on Amazon. Also buying other seals for trans since I'm in there and will do an inspection.
may need to add gear oil, seems to be 90w according to some posts I just read

Need to see if it's a P.I.T.A. to do.
 
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Old 06-30-14, 05:39 PM
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So opened up transmission after getting all the seals needed only to find out there are two seals on trans shaft not just one as listed on exploded view.
The only one listed on websites is the one pressed into trans cover plate.
I spent an hour online looking for the one that goes between spin shaft and agitate shaft. Can't find anywhere.
Had to put it back together and hope it works.
First day loads were fine but after second day some slipping again.
Does anyone know what part number the seal is and where to find?
Only other option is a transmission or new unit.
Any suggestions on supplier?
Taking unit apart is getting old.
 
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