Kenmore dryer breaker trips immediately after new receptacle

Hello: I wonder if anybody can help me troubleshoot my daughter's Kenmore electric dryer. Last week it stopped working so I checked out the fuses and coil. They seem fine. Then I discovered the fuse box which is wired back to the Main Breaker box. Turns out the fuse box is shot (melted wires and corroded fuses) so I had an electrician come in and eliminate the fuse box. He installed a new recepticle, used the fuse box as a junction box, made the hookups back to the breaker panel and checked the wiring. He then turned on the dryer and the 30 amp breakers kicked off. He stated that he doesn't work on appliances and suggested that I have an appliance repairman check the dryer.

Could the fact that the old fuse box had damage to it (melted wiring, etc) and in turn may have damaged the breaker? Or, do I need to recheck the dryer parts to determine what caused the breaker to immediately trip? What do I look for as likely culprits Any professional advice would be very much appreciated.

 

First unplug dryer from wall and see if the breaker trips. If trips with dryer unpluged than it is not a dryer problem. If does not trip than take the cover plate of the dryer where the cord enters dryer. check for burnt wires there first. Let us know what you find.

 

A good electrician would have gone back into his receptacle box and junction box to ensure his wiring was proper. They aren't perfect, and slip up occasionally. But to blame the appliance right off the bat without investigating his work a second time isn't good workmanship, IMO. Can you remove the power to the receptacle, pull the cover off and take a picture of the wiring there and in the junction box and post it here? http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...your-post.html

 

Well I found out this am that it WAS NOT the dryer breaker that was tripping. My spouse told me that the whole house went dark. The electrician told me over the phone (at the time he was wiring the junction box and recepticle) that the breaker tripped instantly. He never mentioned that it was the main breaker. So this a.m. I went to my daughter's home and did the following: Checked all venting, checked all the dryer fuses and connections, including tightening the dryer cord connections while observing any discolored and/or burnt areas. None found, including the sniff tests. I then tested the dryer and it popped the main in a milasecond. I then looked at the breaker, removed it from the buss, removed the wires and it was very clean and reinstalled it.

Do you think that when the old fuse box melted down that there could be a short at one of the motor's terminals?

 

The MAIN is tripping?? we'll wait on the pictures on the jbox and receptacle.

 

Did you unplug dryer than try to turn power????

 

Regardless.... the Main should not trip before the 30A dryer breaker.

 

Uh oh, here comes Furd.

Pete is right, the smaller breaker is meant to trip far before the main.

 

On a bolted short circuit it is possible the main CB will trip before the branch CB.


Yup! The word is regardless.


The smaller CB will trip sooner on overload but in the case of a short circuit there is no way to predict which will trip first.

 

Hopefully these pics uploaded. the Jbox wiring, recepticle wiring and the panel load (100 amp) Thanks

 

This was asked several times.... did you try it.

Normally an old disconnect is not used a junction box. In the upper left corner of the disconnect I see one white and two black wires coming in. Is this disconnect next to the panel ?

 

I agree with PJ on all items. IF there are any problems with the wiring it is not apparent from the pictures but if the (abandoned) disconnect is adjacent to the circuit breaker panel the "electrician" did NOT install the new cable in a "workmanlike" manner. There should be new cable from the CB panel to the dryer receptacle.

Was this a licensed electrician or a handyman that did the work?

How about a few pictures from a greater distance so we can see the entire installation?

 

the jbox is about 4-6 feet from the panel. same wiring, licensed electrician. the original wiring melted in a few spots in the previous fuse box. he didn't seemed concerned.

 

Still did not answer question did you unplug dryer and try turning main on.

 

Yes, I did that early on. Twice.

 

did the breaker trip with dryer plugged in or was it ok not plugged in. Dryer plugged in and tripped dryer problem, not plugged in and still trip house wiring problem, trying to narrow problem down.

 

The electrician plugged the dryer in to the freshly rewired receptacle. When he turned the dryer on the breaker tripped. That sounds like a dryer problem.

Now you are saying that the breaker trips even when the dryer is not plugged in. The makes this a wiring problem.

 

TO JMAX:

No, I haven't conducted that test yet. re: plugging the dryer in to see if main breaker trips. (tomorrow) I will let you know asap. Will also re-check the heating coil. I don't know what else I can do to locate the problem. I could replace the dryer breaker, but am more inclined to look at replacing the dryer with a gas model. Only other thought is the electrician didn't inspect the wiring in the conduit other than conducted a voltage test. thanks for your reply.

 

I just rechecked the thermals and coil. All is good. Conducted plug test .Did this several times, nothing tripped. Talked to appliance parts dealer and he suggested the dryer switch. Although they rarely go bad he said it was a possibility. And also suggested that there may a loose wire somewhere. Besides looking for burns and/ or loose connections how do I test the switch; i.e. continuity, resistance, ohms readings? etc. Thank you.

 

If the problem you are having now with the breaker tripping after turning the dryer on only started after the electrician rewired the plug then you need to remove the cover where the power cord connects to the dryer. There is a good chance the problem is in there.

It almost sounds like the power cord was not originally connected to the dryer properly.

 

The dryer cord is the same cord that always operated properly before the fuse box melted down. Could this cord now be defective? No burns, smell or any discoloration. Would a new cord a new cord solve this issue? Thank you

 

I don't think the cord is defective. I think it may be wired wrong. At least open the cover on the back and check.

The dryer worked up until the disconnect melted. The electrician rewires the receptacle. In the pictures it looks correct.

Therefore it leaves us with two choices.....

1) the electrician connected the wiring in the panel incorrectly
2) the receptacle was wired incorrectly.... and so was the power cord to match.

 

The electrician never wired anything from the panel box, although I suggested (over the phone) that he run new wire thru the conduit and install a new j-box. The outlet and dryer cord appear to be wired correctly. Nothing was rewired re: the dryer cord.

Ok, maybe this might help, maybe not. Here is what I can do to describe what the wiring situation looks like. From the panel; one quad breaker which has a twin 30 amp surrounded by a 20 amp breaker on one side and a 20 amp breaker on the other side. Conduit attached from the panel traveling 4-6 feet to the old fuse box(now being used as a j-box). All wires (2 hots 1 neutral) appear to be properly pigtailed in the j-box and proceed down to the outlet mounting plate for the 3 hole recepticle.

My questions at this point are: 1) At no time have I observed any ground wires regarding this hookup. Is this ok? Or does the conduit serve as the ground? 2) I don't know the condition of the wires inside the conduit; i.e. were they damaged when the fuse box melted down?

If anyone has additional ideas on what I need to look for I will do it. (in a careful manner)

thank you

 

Are the two black wires connected to the 30 amp breaker, and not to the 20 amp singles? You bring up a good point regarding not knowing what condition the wires are in through the conduit. If only a short run, I would run new 10 THHN through and eliminate the box, wiring directly to the dryer receptacle. Not sure why he took the easy way out.

 

The breakers are correctly wired in their respective slots. I inspected them when checking the breakers for burn mark, discolorations and did the sniff test. Does the conduit serve as the ground? Hence no ground wire. Or does 220 not require it?

 

240 volts does not require a neutral, but in the instance of dryers, the controls work off 120 volts so there is the white (neutral) wire. Depending on how the conduit is attached to the boxes and extended from the box to the receptacle, yes. Older installations won't have a 4th wire or ground included with the wiring.

 

Only if it is continuous between breaker box and splice box and between splice box and receptacle and is not old style BX. You have yet to show us a picture of the connections at the dryer. That is what we need to see now.Your house is supplied with 240 not 220. Most dryers are 120 volts then if it is a gas dryer the manufacturer adds a gas heating unit or a 240 volt electric heating coil. There fore though it is usually not written that way in ads 120/240 if electric heat.

Old code allowed a combined neutral ground therefore 3 wires only. Yours may be grandfathered but some inspectors would argue once the electrician redid the wiring grandfathering was void and you need a 4 wire system. (Bet he didn't pull a permit.) Depending on the conduit system it may supply the necessary ground but the receptacle for the dryer, the cord set on the dryer, and internal connections in the dryer will probably need to be change. (Previous based on what from the pictures appears to be a three slot plug. If I looked wrong never mind.)

 

Greetings to everyone who offered me their expert advice. I apologize for not getting back on this for an update of my situation. Other matters were demanding my attention. However, I have located and repaired the dryer which involved a pinched and worn bare hot wire ( with burn traces ) coming off of the terminal block ( underneath the control panel). This wire I replaced. Also, there was the loose connection (spade clip needed reattached) at the motor.

Anyhow, all is well and I thank everyone for their expert advice. THANKS for being patient.

 

Good to see you finally back in operation. Thanks for stopping back and letting us know the outcome.