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Maytag DE410 Dryer: no heat and wiring problems


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01-10-18, 08:56 PM   #1 (permalink)  
Maytag DE410 Dryer: no heat and wiring problems

We have a Maytag DE410 which stopped drying:

No heat
Motor runs

About 5 years ago I replaced the motor & heating coil, and did some other maintenancey-sorts-of-things.

I've done a lot of troubleshooting, and I'm a bit stumped. Here's what I did:

Checked coil resistance - 12 ohms
Checked hi-limit thermostat - 0 ohms
Checked Low Temp cycle thermostats - Purple to Blue and Brown - 0 ohms
Checked Low Temp cycle thermostats - Purple to orange - open circuit (when closed, these power the timer motor)
Replaced coil - no heat (resistance matched old coil) - returned
Replaced timer - no heat (will likely return)

I reviewed the schematics more closely, figured out how the coil gets its power... appears there is a centrifugal switch on the motor. I carefully checked the motor while it was running and the switch properly operates (normally open, when the centrifugal switch activates the contacts close). Reading about 1 ohm through this switch. I even opened it up and the contacts, while blackened, look OK.

At some point I disconnected the heating coil connectors to the motor - and the spade connector for the black wire (wire to the heater coil) was very loose. The spade connector had opened up over time. I used a pair of pliers to close it up, and it fit tightly.

Even after doing that, no heat at the coil.

One oddity about the voltage across the heater coil - sometimes it would read 120, other times it would read 60-75v. When the switch activates (closes) the voltage drops to 0 (as expected).

I checked the power being fed to the dryer, and its getting 120 on both "legs" of the power supply, and 240 across both.


What do I do next? I think I should replace the spade connector for the heater coil, could that be the problem? I got the sense the resistance through it was very low.

Thanks!

John

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01-10-18, 09:05 PM   #2 (permalink)  
I checked the power being fed to the dryer, and its getting 120 on both "legs" of the power supply, and 240 across both.
Are you positive you measured 240vac inside the dryer ?

The dryer all runs on 120vac except for the heater element. That needs 240vac. L2 is only for the element. I see burned connections constantly where the dryer cord attaches to the back of the dryer. I also see loose plugs and receptacles.


~ Pete ~

 
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01-11-18, 04:23 AM   #3 (permalink)  
Yes check for 240 at dryer. There is one contact point in timer L1 circuit that might be burnt. I see timer was changed OK. There should be no open circuit in heater circuit. Any open is bad.

 
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01-11-18, 05:58 AM   #4 (permalink)  
Are you positive you measured 240vac inside the dryer ?

The dryer all runs on 120vac except for the heater element. That needs 240vac. L2 is only for the element. I see burned connections constantly where the dryer cord attaches to the back of the dryer. I also see loose plugs and receptacles.
I took the panel off and measured right where L1, neutral, and L2 are connected to the power cord (at the terminal block).

I checked the receptacle - but only once. It's possible that the cord had a good connection when I checked the voltages, but in shuffling things around it went loose again. I'm also wondering if the circuit breaker L2 connects to is bad.

 
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01-11-18, 06:02 AM   #5 (permalink)  
Yes check for 240 at dryer. There is one contact point in timer L1 circuit that might be burnt. I see timer was changed OK. There should be no open circuit in heater circuit. Any open is bad.
No open circuits as far as I can tell. I think I should check the temp selector switch again.

 
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01-11-18, 07:19 AM   #6 (permalink)  
Temp selector switch is working. After talking about the problem at work, my boss suggested making sure I had continuity across both legs of the coil circuit - if I do then it does point to a problem at the power supply, either breaker or receptacle. I will have to do this with the dryer unplugged, set to a timed cycle (specifically so I can use the plug's contacts to check for continuity).

 
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01-11-18, 08:26 AM   #7 (permalink)  
You could check for 240 at heater core. You would have to disconnect one lead at heater core and put probe to loose wire and heater connection.If read with plugged in will read 0 volt. Dryer will have to run to check.

 
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01-11-18, 06:14 PM   #8 (permalink)  
I think I found the problem - PJmax got it right. This is what I found:

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Yeah, not good. If I had only started out with a basic continuity test - but honestly, I didn't understand the circuit fully until the other night after studying it, so just need to get some crimps and wire.

About that - I can barely make out the marking on the wire. This is the wire that goes from L1 -> BK9. I think it says 600V.

Additionally, are there special crimps I should get? I'd prefer to get a genuine Maytag wire rather than make my own, though I have a decent ratcheting crimper with proper dies for spade terminals.

 
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01-11-18, 08:28 PM   #9 (permalink)  
Yup.... I see that a lot. That and burned power cords.

You can use #12 THHN wire available from a home improvement store.
Any good crimps are ok. I use T & B (Thomas and Betts) type.


~ Pete ~

 
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01-12-18, 03:56 AM   #10 (permalink)  
Usually nuts are welded to screw. Terminal blocks can be bought at any appliance store.

 
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01-13-18, 04:29 PM   #11 (permalink)  
Help picking a replacement wire

I have an appliance - Maytag Dryer - that needs a new wire. They don't sell replacement wires, so I purchased high temperature crimp quick disconnects (and a ring terminal). However, I'm trying to make sure I use the right wire.

The old wire has on it:

Maytag 14 AWG 600 V 105C

I went to the big box store, and they have 14 AWG, but it has 90C printed on it. I did a bit of reading, and it appears this wire (Southwire) may have multiple ratings, so it might work.

The new wire has a thinner insulation that the old, but the old wire is also 34 years old. It's one of the wires that delivers power (240V / 30A breaker) to the heating coil.

The other thing I'm running into - I can only find high-temperature disconnects in a closed style, not an open crimp style. The open crimp has a secondary crimp that holds onto the insulation acting as a strain relief. Are the closed crimps OK, I'm mostly concerned about strain relief and the wire vibrating over time.

Thanks!

John

 
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01-13-18, 04:35 PM   #12 (permalink)  
The new wire has the following printed on it:

Southwire E51583 (UL) AWG 14 2.082mm CU Type MTW or THWN or THHN or GASOLINE AND OIL RESISTANT II or AWM 600 VOLTS VW-1 --- C (UL) T90 Nylon or TWN75 600 VOLTS FT1 NOM-ANCE 90 C - ROHS

I undestand mostly what this is saying (copper wire, 14 AWG, meets certain specifications), but the lack of 105C on the wire (the three dashes are a bit odd) make me pause a bit and I just want to be sure I'm using the right wire.

 
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01-13-18, 04:42 PM   #13 (permalink)  
Usually nuts are welded to screw. Terminal blocks can be bought at any appliance store.
I was fortunate then! Terminal block is in OK shape, but I'll inspect it closely when I reconnect things.

How do I test the old timer? I wired up a 2-prong wire, crimped some quick disconnects to it. Plugged it in the wall - the timer motor makes some noise, but the gear doesn't move. Do I have to set it to a position and let it run and see if the knob moves?

 
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01-13-18, 05:00 PM   #14 (permalink)  
Maybe I answered my own question - the old timer moves, just too slowly to see. I attached the knob/arrow and it moves (had to wait about 10 minutes)..

 
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01-13-18, 05:14 PM   #15 (permalink)  
Threads merged........... I keep all concerned posts in one thread.

That wire is perfectly fine. That actually has a higher heat rating than standard MTW wiring. I use THHN all the time for replacement wiring.

That old wiring didn't fail. The connection was loose and that created the heat to burn the wire. The inside of the dryer doesn't get that hot.

You won't see a timer move. Just put your ear near it.
Usually easy to hear running.


~ Pete ~

 
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01-13-18, 06:11 PM   #16 (permalink)  
Ah, sorry - I figured it was it's own topic altogether.

I put it all back together - it runs and heats!

I think *next* time I will start with the circuit diagram and check continuity through the circuit segment by segment. I could have save myself some time (and a trip to the coin laundry!) if I had done that.

 
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01-13-18, 06:45 PM   #17 (permalink)  
Now you know that the dryer basically runs on 120v except for the element,


~ Pete ~

 
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