Kenmore error code after replacing circulation motor

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Old 01-19-20, 05:05 PM
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Arrow Kenmore error code after replacing circulation motor

We have a 12 year old Kenmore elite that could not clean dishes on top rack. After cleaning out the chopper assembly multiple times (had to do it almost weekly) we decided to replace the circulation pump/motor assembly.

the original model of the dishwasher is 665.16293402 and I looked up the replacement part to be W107822773. Ordered it from amazon and it arrived in an original whirlpool parts box. Looked brand new. Installed it without any problem.

we started the cycle to wash dishes and about 20 minutes in the dishwasher stops and the clean light flashes 7 times. I reset the main board into diagnostic mode and cleared the error and reran the dishwasher and the same error comes up.

I removed the main board to do a visual check and see no visible signs of damage and no burn marks on the back of it. The issue must be coming from the new pump but it seems brand new?

I doubt anything else all of a sudden like the heating element is damaged and the dishwasher seems to emit steam when the door is opened so it looks like its not a heat issue.

somehow the new pump/motor is not seeing eye to eye with the main board

the diagnosis cycle runs without any errors

does anyone have any advice prior to me having to return the pump to amazon?

Thanks in advance
 
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Old 01-19-20, 08:38 PM
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Update. Put the old motor assembly in and got the same error. Previously we had a wood panel over the door so could not see the light so we may have had the error even before we put in the new motor

now I gave to isolate the cause of the low water temp error

any ideas anyone?
 
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Old 01-19-20, 09:06 PM
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The 7 flash fault is either a heater problem or a defective board.
Did you check the heater element in the diagnostic list ?
The wash motor does not report to the board.

Possibly you knocked one of the heater wires off ?


tech sheet 8535451

 
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Old 01-20-20, 06:29 AM
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Thank you for the reply. I tested the resistance berween the door switch harness and the k2 relay harness on the main board and I got 13.4 ohms so I am guessing the heater circuit is ok?

I don’t see any burns on the main board but I know that really doesn’t mean anything. Is the any way to test the relay on the main board?

there was a one week gap between when I installed the new pump and when I restored power to the dishwasher and actually tried it. I waited just case water got into anything while the dishwasher was tipped over to replace the pump. I had the dishwasher on it’s side as I did all this so I don’t know if that may have caused an issue? Maybe it should have been tipped on its back?

it’s odd that somehow by replacing the pump motor the main board somehow decided it wanted to die?

What is also frustrating is this main board was replaced 3 years ago as the old one was charred. Whirlpool apparently had some boards catching fire and was sued in a class action suit.

It seems the unit is getting water as I can hear swishing and when the error kicks in (about 20-25 minutes into a wash cycle) So I know it’s getting water. When I reset the error and try to rerun it after the diagnostic mode the error occurs again after the 20-25 minutes into the wash cycle.

any help from this point would be appreciated as o really don’t want to gamble on a 200 dollar board (Canada price)
 
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Old 01-20-20, 09:11 AM
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Is it possible the thermistor could be faulty and is causing the error? I will test the resistance out of circuit on the thermistor tonight using water that I heat.....unless there is a way to test it at the control board? I assume at room temp?
 
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Old 01-20-20, 07:38 PM
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Ideally you want to monitor the 120v directly at the heating element.
That can be easier said than done due to the tight area.
 
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Old 01-20-20, 07:53 PM
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I tested the thermistor. In circuit it read 68.2 but when I disconnected it it read 45 and dropped when exposed to boiling water . It’s odd it reads so high at the wire harness end. I tested the harness at p2-2 (yellow with back stripe) and p7 (white)

Everything points to the control board but it spotless from and back. Solder joints look brand new and no char marks at all. The board is a replacement bird only 3 years old

I will try to run a test mode and the. Open the door and pour water on the element to see if I get steam but I am certain the element is not heating

 
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Old 01-20-20, 08:24 PM
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I am certain the element is not heating
I'm guessing that's a mistype.

The board doesn't have to have visual damage to be bad.
A typical problem is defective relays.
 
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Old 01-20-20, 08:58 PM
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Yes sorry autocorrect kills me in here

i think the K2 heater relay is dead but didn’t do damage to the board. Must just be a fluke that it happened as we replaced the pump motor although my wife did say the last wash we did was even dirty on the bottom rack. We have a panel over lights so it’s very possible that the error code appeared just before we put in the new circulation assembly

I am trying it now using the hi temp wash setting, maybe that will miraculously bring it back to life .... sadly I doubt it. I think the reason it kicks out after 20 or so minutes is the hot water from the tap that came into the washer has cooled and has not been heated so off she goes .... update didn’t work and I immediately opened the door and felt the element ..not hot at all

could I order the relay and replace it on the board? Otherwise we would not bother replacing the board given our experience to date and it costs over 200. Relay would be cheap, I assume desolder and pop a new on.
 
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Old 01-21-20, 04:49 AM
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I am assuming that your thermistor check/readings is K ohms not ohms.
I would redo/investigate this.
The in circuit test should be the same or a lower resistance.
Sounds like you have a bad connection somewhere in that circuit.

Changing the heater relay may fix it but it is not 100% as you do not know if it is bad relay contacts or bad electronics controlling the relay.
 
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Old 01-21-20, 11:08 AM
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Yes good points. I dont think the board is worth tinkering with. If the issue points back to the board then it’s time for a new dishwasher

With regards to the thermistor would it not be a direct connection of wires straight to the harness from the thermistor connection? Or are those connected branched off somewhere in between ? Just trying to understand where a connection may be bad and causing that kind of k ohms variance between the 2 readings
 
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Old 01-21-20, 11:39 AM
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I am now concerned that in the process of installing the new pump I may have loosened a connection that impacted the heat cycle

yet when I win the resistance on the heat element from the harness I get a 13.5 reading which is in range

no clue what connection may have come loose
 
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Old 01-21-20, 02:59 PM
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It looks like the white wire in the circuit goes to the soil sensor and the vent assembly. That could impact the ohms measured at the harness vs at the thermistor directly would it not?
 
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Old 01-21-20, 06:00 PM
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THERMISTOR
4852k @ 25C (77F)
1213k @ 60C (140F)

Do you have the tech sheet ? I thought you said you did. The wiring is on that.
One side of the thermistor connects to neutral/white The other side connects to P2-2 on board.
One side must be disconnected before testing.

It's rarely a control problem to the relay. It more common for the relay (contacts) to fail.
 

Last edited by PJmax; 01-21-20 at 08:57 PM. Reason: removed tech sheet
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Old 01-21-20, 07:29 PM
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I think I have made a new discovery !!!

i figured as one last ditch effort I would clean off the old solder and resolder the contacts on the k2 relay

I threw the board back in and viola, heat is back and no error code

the initial solder looked great with zero burn marks but I guess whirlpool uses junk solder?

 
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Old 01-21-20, 08:30 PM
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Lead based solder was outlawed from commercial production many moons ago.
The new type lead free solder doesn't have the same durability and wetting of the old stuff.

The connections sometimes burn but other times if you look real close you'll see a circle between the pin and the solder. That circle is cracked solder.

You would do well to resolder any heavy pin type connections now before they break.
 
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Old 01-21-20, 09:22 PM
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My soldering skills are awful, but I agree I will take the board out and redo the big ones

that said I ran normal cycle and it took forever (2.5 hours) so I shut it off. I will try the smart wash cycle tomorrow (the one we usually use) as I am concerned my bad soldering may be causing an issue on the board ( maybe a connection touching another?)

maybe I am paranoid !!! But i will clean up some of the solders and redo some other suspect ones

I will post an update at this time tomorrow
 
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Old 01-22-20, 09:43 AM
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You want to use a soldering iron with a relatively small tip so that you don't contact multiple items. Put the tip on the pin and trace (copper "wiring" on board). Apply the solder to the pin where it contacts the trace. Don't apply the solder to the tip. The solder should melt and "flow" around the pin and the trace.
 
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Old 01-22-20, 10:30 AM
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Thanks for the soldering info

I was focussing more on this touching the solder to the tip of the iron and letting it drop. On the lead versus touching the the lead and then applying the solder. I just get scared of touching the lead and the board for too long before the solder melts. The solder wire is for electronics but it’s quite thick.

I think I will remove the ones I did and redo it

I saw that some people skip the trace and solder a wire from lead to lead, do you think I should try that. I think the connection is better as I don’t get the error anymore but I think the heat is on and off now so the dishwasher keeps running without going to the rinse and dry cycle so maybe there is a connection now buts it’s not consistent?
 
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Old 01-22-20, 11:51 AM
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Yes, you can solder a wire from lead to lead, but it's a lot more work. I have had to do that if a trace is damaged, but usually I just resolder the connections where a lead connects to a trace.

It is easier to solder if your solder is thinner. You may want to buy a small roll of thin solder. Be sure to get rosin core solder rather than acid core solder. Acid core solder is normally used for soldering pipes. The acid can damage electronics, which is why rosin core is used for electronic soldering.
 
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Old 01-22-20, 01:10 PM
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Ok thank you for the info

i will confirm the solder but I am certain it’s for electronics vs plumbing. I will confirm it’s rosin core

I will also practice a few times on a old circuit board we have

 
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Old 01-22-20, 02:20 PM
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Before you start heat up your soldering iron and melt some solder onto the tip and lightly wipe it off.
Help with heat transfer from the tip to the join.
 
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Old 01-22-20, 02:58 PM
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Ok will do

I may try to run a China cycle first to see in fact the soldering done to date has not solved the issue as that should be a relatively shorter cycle run time . I will also make sure water at the tap is hot prior to running the cycle. We have a tankless hot water system so it typically takes a while to heat up.

f of does not complete the cycle ie keeps running in the wash cycle then I will stop it amd resolder the board

I really appreciate all the help and advice . I feel I am close to a final fix

 
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Old 01-22-20, 08:43 PM
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I am sad to report that after resoldering the contacts the error code still does not return however the dishwasher just gets stuck in the wash cycle and keeps running

so I am at a loss now

I think this may be the end for it unless someone has some other thing I could try to do

 
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Old 01-23-20, 08:57 PM
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So I gave it one last shot at soldering the the 3 relay points on the heater relay

I made sure I gave the contact leads and the board heat so I got a good fusing

I also have a heavy gauge wire going between the relay lead and the heater lead

and it works !!!!!

ran a complete cycle with heated drying

it probably wont last long as its a typical whirlpool crap Circuit board but for now we have a functional dishwasher

 
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Old 01-24-20, 05:52 AM
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Congratulations, good job! Thanks for letting us know.
 
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Old 01-24-20, 03:18 PM
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Now I can go back to fixing my initial issue .... dirty dishes on top rack. I dont think I need a complete circulation pump unit as the core motor sounds fine.

the issue was the chopper assembly was getting constantly clogged. I would clean it and it would clog again after a few good washes.


I have narrowed it down the the faulty chopper blade or a stripped impeller on the motor

I will investigate those 2 potential issues. Hope its the chopper because the impeller in pricy
 
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Old 01-24-20, 07:33 PM
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As suspected the chopper was faulty as the chopper spindle was not spinning the blades.

I would advised anyone who has dirty top rack dishes and a constant first chopper blade to closely inspect the chopper prior to replacing the entire circulation motor assembly

its a 15 dollar fix

 
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Old 01-24-20, 08:25 PM
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Another problem is in the orientation of the discharge line. The line needs to go up to just below the countertop. This forms a trap to make sure all the debris goes out instead of coming back into the unit.

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Old 01-26-20, 04:41 PM
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Just when I thought we were in the clear, we did another Load the of dishes today on smart wash. About and hour and 20 minutes into the cycle (after things were sounding to run perfectly) the dishwasher stopped. No error lights , just a blinking start/resume light.

i opened the door and a pressed start and closed the door. I was worried the dishwasher would start the entire Cycle from the beginning so I just hit cancel

we had not done a load since the last cycle and I cut the breaker panel just in case as I wanted one more successful complete cycle to call things a success

maybe I should have done a reset before we fired it up again? Or maybe the board just isnt fully healthy

anyone have any ideas?
 
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Old 01-26-20, 11:16 PM
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Tried it again after a reset. Ran well for an hour and stopped. No lights or power on the display

it burnt out the thermal fuse

experiment is officially over

time for a new unit
 
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