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Wiring a Swith and Receptacle combo, switch and receptacle

Wiring a Swith and Receptacle combo, switch and receptacle

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  #1  
Old 07-29-02, 08:21 PM
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bobtroy
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Wiring a Swith and Receptacle combo, switch and receptacle

I have the following....

source has black, white, and ground
Source goes to a combo switch receptacle

From this setup, I need to add:

Receptacle with constant power
An additional switch to control what the combo switch does

Thanks for the help, bobtroy
P.S. Rewiring with 4 wire cable from the source...12-3 or 14-3 is out of the question, runs underground....

Thanks, bobtroy
 
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  #2  
Old 07-29-02, 08:38 PM
J
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If the only wires present in the switch box are one black, one white, and one ground, then this task is impossible. You must find another source of power for your new receptacle. Sorry.
 
  #3  
Old 07-29-02, 08:47 PM
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bobtroy
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the source coming in is 3 wires, black, white and ground. I have wired temporarily another outlet from this, but it shuts off when I turn off the switch. I would like to replace this combo switch receptacle with a 3 way combo switch-receptacle, add a 3 way switch and have constant power to a receptacle.
 
  #4  
Old 07-29-02, 09:22 PM
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Sorry, but as I said before, it is not possible. None of these wires provide the neutral wire you need to make a receptacle work properly (i.e., the white wire is not like most of the other white wires in your home). Even when your receptacle is working, it is running in series with the light and neither the light nor what is plugged in will work very well (neither is receiving full voltage). And if you have nothing plugged in, your light probably doesn't come on at all.
 
  #5  
Old 07-30-02, 12:59 AM
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bobtroy
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Ok, how about if I wanted to do this...

Source to receptacle
Receptacle to 3 way switch
3 way swithch to 3 way duplex switch

Please explain these connections if possible.
I have 14-2 to receptacle
Do I use 14-3 between 3 way switch and 3 way duplex switch

First Receptacle Need Constant Power
First 3 way and the other 3 way duplex receptacle are used to turn on and off this duplex plug.

Thanks, bob
 
  #6  
Old 07-30-02, 05:23 AM
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What does the switch in the current combo switch/receptacle control?
 
  #7  
Old 07-30-02, 05:58 AM
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bobtroy
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the receptacle below this switch...
I want to add another 3 way switch and a separate receptacle. Source will come into the receptacle....14-2, onto the 3 way swithch, then onto the 3 way duplex switch. Both switches will control the duplex receptacle...thanks, bob
 
  #8  
Old 07-30-02, 08:40 AM
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the receptacle below this switch...
I assume you mean the receptacle which is part of the combo. Sorry to belabor this point, but it is a crucial point which was not clear in your original post, causing John Nelson to deduce that you have a switch loop.

Terminology question: you mention a "3 way duplex switch". This means two switches in one unit. I assume you mean "3 way combo switch" (3-way switch and outlet in the same unit)?

If either of these assumptions are wrong, the disregard the rest of this post.

You mention 14-2 and 14-3 for wire. I assume this is a 15A circuit (the breaker is 15A)? If it is 20A, you will need to use 12-2 and 12-3.

The easiest way to run this is:

(1) For the new unswitched outlet, run 14-2 from the existing box to the new outlet box. In the new box hook black to the brass-colored screw, white to the silver screw, and ground to the green screw.

(2) For the "remote" 3-way, run 14-3 from the existing box to the new remote switch box. In the new switch box, mark the white as hot using a black marker or a piece of black electrical tape and hook it to the common (black) screw. Hook black and red to the traveller screws. Hook ground to the green screw.

(3) I am not familiar with 3-way combos. I assume that the hot side of the outlet is connected to the common side of the switch by a tab. If so, the connections in this box are:
(3a) Hook white from incoming power to the white to the new unswitched outlet and to the neutral side of the combo's outlet (via a pigtail).
(3b) Mark the white from the 14-3 as hot and connect it to the black from incoming power and black to the unswitched outlet. This does not connect to the combo.
(3c) hook red and black from the 14-3 to the traveller screws on the combo.
(3d) Connect all grounds together and to the green screw on the combo (via a pigtail).
 
  #9  
Old 08-01-02, 03:14 PM
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bobtroy
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Ok, heres what I have for a final layout

Source of 14-2 comes into a double gang box holding a 3way switch and a receptacle.

I have 14-3 running to the other 3way and receptacle.

I need to have both 3 ways control only the receptacle at source and have constant power to the other receptacle.

Sorry for the change, but couldnt get a 3 way combo switch and receptacle.

Please help with the wiring instructions, thanks, bobtroy
 
  #10  
Old 08-01-02, 04:11 PM
J
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I don't think we are converging on a solution here. Please explain where you plan to get power for all of this. If I understood your earlier posts correctly, you have exactly one cable coming into the switch box, and this cable has one black wire, one white wire and one bare wire. If this is correct, then this cable is not a suitable source of power. Can you run a cable from some other source of continuous power?

P.S. Your use of the word "source" is confusing to me. I don't know what you mean by that word.
 
  #11  
Old 08-01-02, 04:19 PM
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bobtroy
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The word source in this sense means the wire coming in...which is on its own breaker circuit. This is a pool wire...coming directly from the circuit breaker to a junction box. The location is very awkward. Its under a deck. I want to exten whats there...so I can have easy access. I dont see a problem with overload, its just one switch and one receptacle in use.

Can I do this if I keep the original combo switch and come off of this to wire a 3way and another receptacle...thanks for the help,. bobtroy
 
  #12  
Old 08-01-02, 04:59 PM
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Oh, I see. This is a new installation. I thought you were modifying a switch setup that previously existed. It's always easier to describe what to do if I understand what we're starting with.

Gotta run right now, but I'll post back later if nobody else has already answered you.
 
  #13  
Old 08-01-02, 05:09 PM
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bobtroy
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Thanks John...Im tackling this tomorrow...I have plenty of 14-2 and 14-3 for the job...thanks again, bobtroy
 
  #14  
Old 08-01-02, 05:57 PM
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There are quite a number of ways to do this. Let me tell you just one. The advantage I like of this way is that all white wires carry the neutral of your circuit, and none of the white wires need to be identified as hot. I think this is less confusing.

Call your cable coming directly from the breaker into the first double-gang box "P". Run two cables between the two boxes: a 14/2 called "X" and a 14/3 called "T".

At the first box, where "P" comes in, and where you want the switched receptacle:
  • Connect Pb to Xb, and Pw to Xw. You are really just passing the power cable directly over to the other box.
  • Connect Tb and Tr to the two traveler screws on the switch.
  • Connect a jumper from the common screw on the switch to one of the brass screws on the switched receptacle.
  • Connect Tw to one of the silver screws on the switched receptacle.
  • Connect the bare wires from P, T, and X to two bare pigtails. Connect one pigtail to the green screw on the switch, and the other pigtail to the green screw on the switched receptacle.
At the second box where you want the other switch and the unswitched receptacle:
  • Connect Xb to two black pigtails. Connect one pigtail to the common screw on the switch, and connect the other pigtail to one of the brass screws on the unswitched receptacle.
  • Connect Xw to Tw and one white pigtail. Connect the pigtail to one of the silver screws on the unswitched receptacle. (Alternatively, you could just connect Xw and Tw to the two silver screws on the receptacle.)
  • Connect Tr and Tb to the two traveler screws on the switch.
  • Connect the bare wires from X and T to two bare pigtails. Connect one pigtail to the green screw on the switch, and the other pigtail to the green screw on the unswitched receptacle.
Your mention of "pool wire" and "under a deck" are cause for a little concern about possible complications. Make sure the breaker is no larger than 15-amps, and that the junction box under the deck is weathertight. I'm not quite sure what a "pool wire" is.
 
  #15  
Old 08-01-02, 06:20 PM
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bobtroy
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Thanks, Ill try this and let you know how I made out tomorrow evening.

Yes this is a 15 amp dedicated circuite.

I purchased all weathertight, even for the old "stuff"...thanks, bobtroy
 
  #16  
Old 08-03-02, 01:49 PM
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bobtroy
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I did this setup...\\\

Power is a 14-2 wire directly from breaker into double gang box...
Containing a 3Way switch and a Receptacle

Ran 14-2 and 14-3 from double gang box to another 3Way switch and receptacle in second double gang box

Both 3Ways will control first receptacle in double gang box at source

The second receptacle will always have power on...

I need help on the exact wiring connections.

thanks for the help...bobtroy
 
  #17  
Old 08-03-02, 02:30 PM
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bobtroy
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You stated and have 2 switch loops in the diagram and instructions...is this wrong?...thanks, bobtroy
 
  #18  
Old 08-03-02, 04:08 PM
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You appear to be referring to the other forum, so I am providing answers to the questions you asked there, and in reference to the diagram that was posted there.

Here's what you said in the other forum:
Help...job is done...but the switches do not turn off the receptacle...thank you.
and
from diagram looks like there are 2 jumpers, one in each switch...ie...black to black and red to black in the other...is this correct.
There are no jumpers in the diagram on the other forum. You have misinterpreted the diagram that shows the internal connections of the switch for external jumpers. Remove both jumpers -- you weren't supposed to install them.
I removed the tab on receptacle number 1...correct?
You should have removed no tabs. The tab removal instructions are left over from when you said you planned to use a combo switch/receptacle. Since you are not using the combo, you should have removed no tabs.
Also what colored wires go on the black screw on the 2 switches...i have as blacks between both switches?
In the diagram on the other forum, the black wire is connected to the common in the first double box, and the red is connected to the common in the second double box (where the switch loop is).

If you continue to have problems, why don't you just wire it as I recommended above. The cables required are the same, so all you have to do is change the connections. It's funny the various ways that a drawing can be misleading.
 
  #19  
Old 08-03-02, 05:22 PM
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bobtroy
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I got it I think...I took out the two jumpers...moved the red to common on switch 2, only thing thats not working is the top outlet in receptacle number 1...is this due to the tab I removed? Ill replace that and hopefully all is well. Thanks for the help....bobtroy
 
  #20  
Old 08-03-02, 05:36 PM
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Yes, that last problem is due to the tab removal. You can put in a jumper to replace it, but I'd probably just replace the receptacle.
 
  #21  
Old 08-03-02, 05:40 PM
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Gary Tait
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Let's simplify (correct me if I am wrong)

Box A (powered box) will have 3 way switch, and recepticle swtched by the 3-way switch circuit. Box B (remote box) will have continuous recept. and other 3-way switch to control outlet in box A.

If I am correct the wire as follows:

At the powered box (which will have the recepticle controlled by the switches:

Connect black from power, black on the 14/2 to the remote box, and a pigtail to the common of the 3 way switch together.

Connect White from power, white on the 14/2 to the remote box, and a pigtail to the silver crew of the recepticle together.

Connect black of the 14/3 to the brass on the recepticle,
and the red and whit wires of the 14/3 to the traveller
terminals of the 3-way switch.

At the remote box, the 14/2 will go to the recpticle as usual,
an the 14/13 will connect to the 3-way switch, with the black to
common.
 
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