gfci recepticle or gfci circuit breaker?

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  #1  
Old 08-05-02, 08:07 AM
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Gary Lamy
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gfci recepticle or gfci circuit breaker?

I am planning on building a raised pond in my backyard and I want to tap into the receptacle in my shop, which is in the walkout basement. I’d like to install an outdoor receptacle just on the other side of the wall from the indoor receptacle and continue a line for about 40 feet using metal conduit over to a double receptacle which will be mounted on a 4x4 post. This double receptacle will be used for 2 pumps which each use 25 watts and a light which uses 20watts. The current circuit is 15 amps and has 4 receptacles, one of which is a GFCI. The circuit is not used much except occasionally for a power tool. I’ve read that a GFCI receptacle can only support up to 4 receptacles. My questions are: Can I just install another GFCI receptacle on the same circuit or should I install a GFCI circuit breaker ? Also, I will be using weather tight boxes. Do I need to make a cutout into my stucco wall and recess the box or can I just drill a hole just big enough for the wire and mount the box on the exterior wall? Any help or tips are appreciated.
 
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  #2  
Old 08-05-02, 08:15 AM
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Gary Tait
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A GFCI can supply and protect and infininte amount of receptacles,
so as long as the one you have is the first one, and is properly
wired, you should be ok. By rights though, your outdoor receptacle should be on it's own circuit
 
  #3  
Old 08-05-02, 09:12 AM
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Gary Lamy
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Gary,
When you said, "By rights though, your outdoor receptacle should be on it's own circuit", do you mean this is against code to wire into the existing recepticle inside?
 
  #4  
Old 08-05-02, 02:13 PM
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GasGuzz
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With the circuit breaker to your first device (GFCI), any device LOADED downstream is then GFCI protected. Exterior electric is required to be on GFCI, garage circuits are categorized as exterior and are isolated and have GFCI – where you can branch from (relative on how you load it). You can drill a hole, pass the wire through, seal it, and connect to an outlet mounted to an exterior box, and inside your “weather tight” enclosure.

I question the other end where you have the double-receps for the pumps. If they are plugged to the outlets, then what is “weather tight”?
 
  #5  
Old 08-05-02, 02:35 PM
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Gary Lamy
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Thanks for the info. I plan on using a weather tight box with an
"In Use" cover on the double recepticle near the pond. I guess it's not totally weather tight but the covers I've seen are deep, completely cover the plug, and there is a hole at the bottom end of the cover where the cord passes through. Ideally it would be nice to have wires from the pumps reach all the way inside the house.
One more question. This sounds silly but I haven't seen any info on how to wire receptacles in a double or gang box. Do I just use 3 pig-tails to connect in the hot, neutral and ground wires?
 
  #6  
Old 08-05-02, 02:43 PM
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GasGuzz
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Trying to explain a double-recep wiring might be confusing. It's best to refer to the instructions/diagrams shipped with the receps. Thare are different options on how you want to line-in and load-out (they're essentially just 2 outlets).
Good luck.
 
  #7  
Old 08-05-02, 04:12 PM
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Canoe875
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First i want to be sure that your pumps only draw 25 watts, are you sure that is correct? that sounds pretty low for a pond pump. As for number of gfi's downstream, where i live it is code to have no more than five, i would not put an infinite number downstream , i would think they would start to trip for no reason just from having so many connections. or possibley taking longer to trip when a fault does occur. gfi's are suppose to trip in one/ third of a second, ios what i hear, my electrical teacher once stuck the end of a file in a gfi protected outlet in his basement, he said the one-third of a second felt like forever, but anyway i wouldn't downstream too many in my house....
 
  #8  
Old 08-06-02, 06:45 AM
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GasGuzz
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I agree. I too am not of the thinking there is an infinite number of devices downstream of a GFCI. Even superconductors have resistance, and will affect performance.
From what is GIVEN for the project here, a 40 ft. branch wouldn't be a burden.
 
  #9  
Old 08-06-02, 06:53 AM
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Plastic conduit might be better. You would be required to use ridgid if you use steel.
 
  #10  
Old 08-06-02, 07:22 AM
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Gary Lamy
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The pond is actually only 6 feet in diameter and only 3 feet deep. It's more like a patio fountain. The pumps push throught about 450 gallons per hour. They are pretty efficient. From the way you guys are talking, I guess I shouldn't add anything else to the circuit other than my two receptacles for the pumps and light. I was considering putting a recepticle on the exterior of the house that tapped into the receptacle inside, then running my line over to the "fountain" from it. That would put 7 receptacles on the circuit. If I eliminate the one on the exterior wall of the house than I would have 6. I hope that's not breaking any code. I did notice that I have two circuits for just my shop. 4 receptacles on each circuit and each circuit has a gfci receptacle. I was trying to make this easy and not rip out the dry wall to run a separate line for a new circuit.
 
  #11  
Old 08-06-02, 07:38 AM
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You can do what you were going to do,, there isnt any appreciable load on that and 6 int too many especially on a garage where you tend to be the only person working. On a project like that especially if there is drywall like you said,, take the easy way. Its not rocket science and doesnt need to be made out like it is.
 
  #12  
Old 08-06-02, 08:33 AM
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Gary Lamy
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sberry27,
I planned on using metal boxes. Can I use pvc conduit the whole way or rigid steel from the box to the ground and then connected to pvc for the pipe underground?
 
  #13  
Old 08-06-02, 10:40 AM
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There is a threaded adapter for plastic that will allow going to threaded holes into outdoor boxes. You can adapt to metal using a coupling and adapter but there really shouldnt be any point and it be much easier to stay with one kind of material I would think. There are also nice outdoor plastic boxes that I think I might be tempted to use where the pipe just glues right in. I dont use them,,, but its only because I dont have many branch circuits underground ( I use direct burial mostly) and I keep my stock uniform and use the alum ones. If I did I would think thats the way to go and they have pre-formed radius elbows,,, nice to push or pull wire thru. Carlon boxes available everywhere. Actually you dont need pipe other than entering and exiting the ground if you use UF wire. You can put a recept box on the building ( which I think is a great feature) or use an Lb there. Pipe is nice that you could add control wires if you wanted from the building,,, keep timers inside and all.
 
  #14  
Old 08-06-02, 12:47 PM
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Gary Lamy
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Thanks,
for all the input.
 
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