220v patio outlet

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Old 08-28-00, 05:48 PM
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I've got a 220v outlet in a metal box outdoors. The metal box connects to metal conduit, runs down underground to the house, then in to a double-breaker. Two wires come out of the conduit inside the outlet box, red and black, both hot. A green ground wire connects directly to the outlet box. When I bought the house, some diy person wired in an extension cord coming directly out of the box using gray romex and an extension end and it just snaked out of a hole cut in the outlet cover (the outlet was there too). I removed this to reinstall an outlet only, but here are the questions -- can I install a GCFI outlet here? If so, what wires do I use? If not, can I reinstall the regular outlet using one wire for the top, one for the bottom with the tab between broken out? And, what do I use for the neutral? I'm a little confused...
 
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Old 08-28-00, 07:41 PM
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Dean,

As you have it wired you cannot use it as a 110 outlet. You are correct in that you do not have a neutral.
This is not difficult to change however.
The code requires you to remove one of the collors and replace with a white wire.
In your case this should not pose to much difficulty. Just tie on the white to preferably the red and pull it out and as you do, you will be pulling in the new.
To begin, remove the leads from the breaker so it is dead, then begin your replacement.
When done the white will go on the neutral bar and the black back on a single pole breaker. You can use one leg of the 220 breaker. I assume this was a 20 amp circuit but you don't say exactly.
Also, one other thing is not quite clear. Is the conduit all the way to the panel or just to the house where they may convert to romax.
If this is the case you only need to replace the single (red) wire in the conduit. You would then tie the new white onto the white of the romax and the wiring in the panel is switched as I indicated above.
Then install your 110 outlet,GFI.
 
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Old 08-29-00, 01:41 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David B.:
Dean,

As you have it wired you cannot use it as a 110 outlet. You are correct in that you do not have a neutral.
This is not difficult to change however.
The code requires you to remove one of the collors and replace with a white wire.
In your case this should not pose to much difficulty. Just tie on the white to preferably the red and pull it out and as you do, you will be pulling in the new.
To begin, remove the leads from the breaker so it is dead, then begin your replacement.
When done the white will go on the neutral bar and the black back on a single pole breaker. You can use one leg of the 220 breaker. I assume this was a 20 amp circuit but you don't say exactly.
Also, one other thing is not quite clear. Is the conduit all the way to the panel or just to the house where they may convert to romax.
If this is the case you only need to replace the single (red) wire in the conduit. You would then tie the new white onto the white of the romax and the wiring in the panel is switched as I indicated above.
Then install your 110 outlet,GFI.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, I will follow your advice and pull a new white wire and connect it to the white wire of the Romex in the house (you guessed correctly) then make the necessary change in the panel. I'm having the electric company disconnect the house anyway to replace the weatherhead -- I'll do it then. But, there is something that I would like to understand. This outlet looks like it was originally put in professionally, but just later hacked by someone to put in the extension. Was it ever acceptable to allow 2 hot wires with only a ground connected to the box? While the outlet looks like it was ORIGINALLY professionally done, it sure seems unsafe to not have a neutral.
 
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Old 08-29-00, 04:31 PM
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Hi Dean,

A 220 without a neutral is actually the norm.
You do not need a neutral for a true 220v circuit. Only in residential wiring for only two very common appliances, ranges and dryers is a neutral also required.
In your case, I would assume that a 220v outlet was required at one time and used correctly. However, the cord that you mentioned, I am assuming was being used as a 110v connection. If so, they were using the ground as their return which is very dangerous.
Glad I could help.
Good luck.
 
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