Breaker slots exhausted

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Old 09-09-00, 01:19 PM
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I presently have a 150 amp breaker box in my cabin. Because I have electric heat and water I have used up all my breaker slots. The 110V circuits already have piggy back breakers. Are there any breakers made that would piggy back the 220V circuits. The load center is manufactured by ITE, which I believe is now Siemens. I plan to expand to a secondary load center if none of the above work. I am not sure how to connect from the Primary to Secondary panels.
 
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Old 09-09-00, 02:10 PM
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Hi tjwahl,

ITE does produce a quad-breaker. You can get it in several different rating sizes. I don't particularly like them because they tend to put unusall connected loads on just one pin and if the same is true of the opposite locations, the particular buss bar can get hot. I see a lot of burned ITE breakers because of this factor.
However, that is an option, especialy if you are adding only one or maybe two positions.
The other option is to install a secondary panel. I'm also assuming that you are not near the 80% connected load on your existing panel.
To install this panel, get a 100 ML(main lug) panel and feed it with a 6/3 or if you want to pipe it, you can use #6 THW, or THHN type of wire.
You will need to sacrifice at least two spaces in your current panel to locate the 60 2/p breaker to feed the subpanel. You will then need to pigtail these circuits and run them into the new panel as well. Conduit would be your best selection for connection because of this factor. Put the "hot" feeder legs on the main lugs, the neutral on the neutral bar and the ground on a ground bar. You need to keep the neutral and grounds separate in a subpanel.
good luck.
 
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Old 09-09-00, 03:26 PM
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Thanks David B.
I guess there is nothing like experience. I am going ahead with the addition of the sub panel. I will have future requirements for additional breakers, so this makes sense.
 
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Old 09-10-00, 01:10 PM
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I have quite a bit of concern that your demand load of your dwelling is more than your service is rated. I suspect your going to start poping your main breaker due to overload.

What David B said is fine but I think you are setting up a problem now or the near future. You may be wasting your money.

You are saying electric heat, electric hot water. If you have an electric range, water pump, one or two window a/c units, have 600 or more in square feet of living area. You are heading for a main overcurrent device overload. I suspect you will experience your main kicking out due to overload.

You might want to upgrade your service size.

The cost should be about the same as adding the sub panel but the advantage give you a future increase in load capability and feel secure that your main won't overload and kick out.

Get with your Inspector and your Utility company and change your meterbase outside holding your meter from a 60 or 100 amp meterbase to a 325 amp meterbase with double lugs. Then instead of using a main lug only panel as a sub panel, use a 100 or 200 amp panel with a main breaker and install this panel at the side of your existing panel. Install feeders from the old panel to the one side of the double lugs in the meterbase hopefully using the old feeders. Then run new service entrance conductors to the other side of the double lugs. Either #4 cu for 100 amp panel or 2/0 cu. for a 200 amp panel as allowed by 310-15-b-6 of the NEC. You now have either a 250 amp service counting your existing 150 amp panel and your new 100 amp panel, or you have a 350 amp service counting your 150 amp existing panel and your new 200 amp panel.

This should give you peace of mind that you have a service large enough to do your job now and in the future and the cost should be about the same. The labor and prep time may increase but thats free from ourselves.


Good luck

Wg

 
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Old 09-10-00, 01:15 PM
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Sorry I forgot to mention that you have to ground this new panel so that your grounding is contiuous with both panels. Also you must increase the size of you feeders going up your riser to the Utilty company's connection. If you have an underground service from you Utility company they will take care of the line side of the meter.

Good Luck

Wg
 
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