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Old 09-14-00, 07:15 AM
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I'm running wiring for our addition. Can I first feed an outside light (w/loop to switch); next to inside GFI; then to outside outlet; then back inside to three inside outlets? All these are on the same 24ft wall. Would like to do same thing on west wall. And on the third circuit, first feed a pull string attic light; then hit a ceiling fan light (w/loop to switch); and then hit another ceiling fan light (w/loop to its own switch). Hoping to feed off last ceiling fan light off to garage lighting someday when we can add the garage (does this sound doable? feeding from here to garage lighting?).
 
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Old 09-14-00, 08:07 AM
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Sounds good, especially if these are all separate circuits as you said. You can run the garage lighting from the last ceiling fan, but the wall outlets for the garage, I would run one more circuit. Maybe even a 3 wire circuit where you could have 2 separate circuits in the garage from the same cable. If you do decide to run a 3 wire circuit, ensure the breakers are on opposite legs of the incoming service and your neutral wires are pigtailed at the first outlets (don't use the side terminals to continue the neutral on the first outlets). One more tip, (if you're not doing it already), for your ceiling fan switches, run a 14/3 w/ ground cable down to your switches and install 2 switches so you can control the fan and the light independently. Use white to bring hot to both switches, black up to the light and red up to the fan...
 
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Old 09-14-00, 04:55 PM
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I agree with what Handyman said. He worded it great. Just a couple of questions to make sure we understand what we are reading between the lines.

The outside receptacles must be GFI protected. Bedrooms and living rooms are approved to be GFI protected but not required. I question in your bouncing in an out of the dwelling are you running any receptacles of this circuit in a bathroom? This would not be allowed. Bathroom receptacles must be dedicated as bathroom receptacles and 20 amp rated and GFI protected. Bath room receptacles are not allowed to be mixed with any other rooms or even outside.

Handyman mentioned running a 14/3 switch leg for you fan. This is ok if the rest of the circuit is 14 ga. If the rest of the circuit is 12 ga. I suggest 12/3 for the switch leg for your fan. It is allowed by the code to start with 12 ga from the panel and installing 14 ga in the circuit but if you do this then you must size the breaker in the panel serving that circuit by the smallest conductor on that circuit which would be the 14 ga at 15 amp instead of a 20 amp.

Good Luck

Wg
 
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Old 09-14-00, 08:58 PM
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Guys the only place i differ is i would not add lights in the garage to an existing circuit nor outlets in garage make 2 new runs from panel and do not use a multi wire circuit although legal they can be very dangerous. If you use a multi wire and latter sell that house and the markings have come offf you could be libel if someone should get hurt so stay away from them
 
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Old 09-15-00, 03:54 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wgoodrich:
I agree with what Handyman said. He worded it great. Just a couple of questions to make sure we understand what we are reading between the lines.

The outside receptacles must be GFI protected. Bedrooms and living rooms are approved to be GFI protected but not required. I question in your bouncing in an out of the dwelling are you running any receptacles of this circuit in a bathroom? This would not be allowed. Bathroom receptacles must be dedicated as bathroom receptacles and 20 amp rated and GFI protected. Bath room receptacles are not allowed to be mixed with any other rooms or even outside.

Handyman mentioned running a 14/3 switch leg for you fan. This is ok if the rest of the circuit is 14 ga. If the rest of the circuit is 12 ga. I suggest 12/3 for the switch leg for your fan. It is allowed by the code to start with 12 ga from the panel and installing 14 ga in the circuit but if you do this then you must size the breaker in the panel serving that circuit by the smallest conductor on that circuit which would be the 14 ga at 15 amp instead of a 20 amp.

Good Luck

Wg
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks all the help and advice. Yes, I'm definitely bouncing in and out of walls at the start of this wall run. This is a family room, but also will be the main entrance to our home. So I wanted an outside light by the door and an outside recepticle. I thought it wouldn't hurt to put the GFI on first and let all outlets after be protected?

 
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Old 09-15-00, 07:21 AM
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I would agree that the first receptacle on the circuit be GFCI to protect all of those downstream. If you check my question posted yesterday, "garage re-wire", you'll find in the replies some interesting recommendations and some food for thought. Personally, I wanted to divorce my garage from all lighting & receptacle circuits inside the house. It's not a question of right or wrong, though, just a personal preference.

Also, you seem to have received some good advice - are these guys great, or what?

JH
 
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Old 09-16-00, 09:11 AM
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Wg,
You're right. My bust. I gotta be careful what I say here. I have 15A lighting circuits in my home and I used 14/3 to wire dual switches for the fans.
For doc,
I've read several posts where you say to stay away from a 3-wire circuit. And I'm not disagreeing with you, I was just wondering if you could elaborate. For me, the advantages are that it uses less material and reduces voltage drop. If the loads are equal, your neutral will carry no current. If the loads are unequal, it will carry only the difference between the two loads.
Also Wg, can you comment on this please??? Should you always tie the breakers in a 3-wire circuit? (Stupid question?)
 
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Old 09-16-00, 11:28 AM
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The NEC requires the two hots to be tied on a 220 breaker in a dwelling only. On commecial settings the double pole breaker is not required.

It is my understanding that the code committe reviewing this section of the code felt that if a commercial setting that multi wire circuits are very common, even to the point of expecting them. They also were concerned that dwellings do not commonly have multiwire circuits. It is my understanding that this is why the double pole breaker requirement was written for dwelling settings only.

I feel that Doc has reservations about a multiwire circuit sharing a neutral, because a majority of the people we are in contact with in this forum most likely do not possess the skill level to safely accomplish a multi wire design in a safe manner.

You are correct the NEC requires that the connections be made so that the device can be removed without breakeing the grounding [equipment ground] or the grounded [neutral]. Where the multi wire circuit is using the neutral you must wire nut so that the connection does not rely on the device connections.

Glad to be of some help

Wg
 
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