ceiling fan
#1
09-21-02, 10:33 AM
ceiling fan
how difficult is to wire a fan/light without a pre-exsisting fixture? im no expert but have some basic knowledge. (i have attic access)
#2
09-21-02, 11:42 AM
Member
Here's the general process: (1) Decide where you want the fan. (2) Use a stud finder to see if there is a joist there. If so, you might want to move it over to where there isn't a joist. However, if you want, you can mount a fan box directly to the bottom of the joist. But let's assume that there is no joist within a few inches of where you want the fan. (3) Buy a fan-rated round ceiling box. If you want, you can buy a fan-brace kit that comes with a box. (4) Cut a hole in the ceiling drywall the size of the box opening. (5) If you bought the fan brace, you can then install the box in the opening according to brace instructions. It can be done from below through the hole. (6) If you didn't buy the brace, go up in the attic and measure the distance between the studs. Cut a 2x4 to this length and mount the 2x4 between the joists at a height so that the front of the box will be flush with the drywall when attached to the 2x4.
That's the mechanical part.
But you asked about the electrical part. (1) Decide where you want the wall switch. It's best to plan to install a double-gang box with two switches, although you can install a single-gang box with a duplex switch if you prefer. One switch will be for the fan and one for the light. (2) Buy an old-work box. (3) Use a stud finder to make sure that there isn't a stud there, and then cut a hole in the drywall the size of the box. (4) Now decide where you will get power from the fan. An unswitched receptacle is usually the best choice. (5) You need to run a 12/2 cable from the unswitched receptacle to the switch. If the switch is directly above the receptacle, this should be easy. Otherwise, you'll probably need to run a cable up into the attic and then back down again. This will require you to drill holes in the top plate of the wall, directly above the receptacle and above the switch. (6) Fish the cable into the receptacle box, and through the opening for the new switch. Fishing cable is somewhat of an art, but you can probably figure it out. (7) Fish a 12/3 cable from the attic through the opening for the switch box. (8) Feed both cables into the switch box, and mount the box in the drywall. (9) Feed the other end of the cable into the fan box. (10) Now all that's left is to hang the fan and make the connections at each of the three boxes.
It's not a very hard job since you have attic access, but it's no fun working in the attic, and fishing wires can be a bit frustrating sometimes (especially into the existing receptacle box). You'll also need to make very careful measurements so that you drill the holes in the right places in the top plates.
This is a manageable job for an electrical novice who is reasonably handy. We can help you with the details if you decide to go ahead with it. I'd recommend reading a book on home wiring to learn a few of the basic skills if you don't already have them.
That's the mechanical part.
But you asked about the electrical part. (1) Decide where you want the wall switch. It's best to plan to install a double-gang box with two switches, although you can install a single-gang box with a duplex switch if you prefer. One switch will be for the fan and one for the light. (2) Buy an old-work box. (3) Use a stud finder to make sure that there isn't a stud there, and then cut a hole in the drywall the size of the box. (4) Now decide where you will get power from the fan. An unswitched receptacle is usually the best choice. (5) You need to run a 12/2 cable from the unswitched receptacle to the switch. If the switch is directly above the receptacle, this should be easy. Otherwise, you'll probably need to run a cable up into the attic and then back down again. This will require you to drill holes in the top plate of the wall, directly above the receptacle and above the switch. (6) Fish the cable into the receptacle box, and through the opening for the new switch. Fishing cable is somewhat of an art, but you can probably figure it out. (7) Fish a 12/3 cable from the attic through the opening for the switch box. (8) Feed both cables into the switch box, and mount the box in the drywall. (9) Feed the other end of the cable into the fan box. (10) Now all that's left is to hang the fan and make the connections at each of the three boxes.
It's not a very hard job since you have attic access, but it's no fun working in the attic, and fishing wires can be a bit frustrating sometimes (especially into the existing receptacle box). You'll also need to make very careful measurements so that you drill the holes in the right places in the top plates.
This is a manageable job for an electrical novice who is reasonably handy. We can help you with the details if you decide to go ahead with it. I'd recommend reading a book on home wiring to learn a few of the basic skills if you don't already have them.
#3
09-26-02, 09:54 AM
JOHN-
ok ive got the fan up (the easy part). you told me to decide on the wall switch. heres my situation. i have a double gang box already in place directly above an outlet that would be an ideal spot for the fan switch. neither switch is for the outlet below it. i can put a triple gang box, no problem. there are 4 cables into the box for two switches. one switch operates a light in the closet. this switch has two black wires into it. one of which comes directly from a cable the other is from a cap with two blacks from 2 of the other cables. all tree whites and grounds are bound and capped. the other switch, which operates an outlet (but not below it), has a black and white directly into it from the fourth cable. the ground is left alone. the outlet below the switches has two cables into the box and all four wires, black and white, are into the outlet with the grounds bound together.
my questions are:
1. how do i get power from the outlet to the switch (as you said to do) and how is it wired (outlet to switch and switch to fan)?
2. how can i be sure i am not overloading the circut?
ok ive got the fan up (the easy part). you told me to decide on the wall switch. heres my situation. i have a double gang box already in place directly above an outlet that would be an ideal spot for the fan switch. neither switch is for the outlet below it. i can put a triple gang box, no problem. there are 4 cables into the box for two switches. one switch operates a light in the closet. this switch has two black wires into it. one of which comes directly from a cable the other is from a cap with two blacks from 2 of the other cables. all tree whites and grounds are bound and capped. the other switch, which operates an outlet (but not below it), has a black and white directly into it from the fourth cable. the ground is left alone. the outlet below the switches has two cables into the box and all four wires, black and white, are into the outlet with the grounds bound together.
my questions are:
1. how do i get power from the outlet to the switch (as you said to do) and how is it wired (outlet to switch and switch to fan)?
2. how can i be sure i am not overloading the circut?
Last edited by stevenardigo; 09-26-02 at 11:15 AM.
#4
09-26-02, 06:12 PM
Member
You're in luck. You don't need to get power into the switch box. It's already there.
Replace the double-gang box with a triple-gang. Buy a duplex switch for the third spot (use the top switch for the fan's light, and the bottom switch for the fan motor).
Add another black pigtail to that wire nut that contains black wires. Run this new pigtail to the side of the combo switch with the brass tab connecting the two screws.
Run a new 12/3 cable from the ceiling to the switch box. Connect the black and red to the two screws on the other side of the switch. Connect the ground to the other grounds, and to the switch with a pigtail to the green screw. Connect the white from the 12/3 to the wire nut with the three other white wires.
At the fan, use the red wire for the fan's light and the black wire for the fan's motor.
A fan motor will consume about 65 watts when running on high. The fan's light will consume whatever is the sum of the wattage of the bulbs. Add it all up.
Now go shut off whatever breaker disrupts power to the closet light. Check for everything that has now lost power. Add up the wattage of all of those things. Then add in what you got for the fan. If you're still below 1500 watts, you're okay.
Replace the double-gang box with a triple-gang. Buy a duplex switch for the third spot (use the top switch for the fan's light, and the bottom switch for the fan motor).
Add another black pigtail to that wire nut that contains black wires. Run this new pigtail to the side of the combo switch with the brass tab connecting the two screws.
Run a new 12/3 cable from the ceiling to the switch box. Connect the black and red to the two screws on the other side of the switch. Connect the ground to the other grounds, and to the switch with a pigtail to the green screw. Connect the white from the 12/3 to the wire nut with the three other white wires.
At the fan, use the red wire for the fan's light and the black wire for the fan's motor.
A fan motor will consume about 65 watts when running on high. The fan's light will consume whatever is the sum of the wattage of the bulbs. Add it all up.
Now go shut off whatever breaker disrupts power to the closet light. Check for everything that has now lost power. Add up the wattage of all of those things. Then add in what you got for the fan. If you're still below 1500 watts, you're okay.
#8
10-07-02, 06:54 PM
Sorry John-
Ive got another problem. ive tried to install a hunter fan on a sloped ceiling but this requires the mounting plate to be placed inline with the slope, meaning straight up and down the ceiling. now the braces that i have seen only allow mounting plate to be off 20-25 degrees to the left or right causing the groove that the fan sits in (which allows for fan movement) to be off of the slope also. so the problem being, that i think the screws are coming loose and the fan does not remain snug against the ceiling. am i right? are there any special braces for sloped ceilings? any thoughts?
Ive got another problem. ive tried to install a hunter fan on a sloped ceiling but this requires the mounting plate to be placed inline with the slope, meaning straight up and down the ceiling. now the braces that i have seen only allow mounting plate to be off 20-25 degrees to the left or right causing the groove that the fan sits in (which allows for fan movement) to be off of the slope also. so the problem being, that i think the screws are coming loose and the fan does not remain snug against the ceiling. am i right? are there any special braces for sloped ceilings? any thoughts?
#9
10-07-02, 07:12 PM
Member
I can't quite understand what your problem is. I've installed a number of Hunter fans on sloped ceilings using a fan brace, and I've never had a problem. Can you describe the problem another way?
#10
10-07-02, 08:04 PM
there is a ceiling plate that must run the direction of the slope ie the top of the plate ( with the hooks that you hang the fan on while wiring) points to the peak of the ceiling. there is also a cover over the plate that has 2 notches in them that run in the same direction as the plate. therefore, the ball in the ceiling that allows for movement has 2 grooves for the notches which would allow the fan to swing in 2 directions, towards the peak and the bottom of the room (when installed properly) . i could not install the plate as stated in the manual because the female holes for the screws in the brace were not at the top or bottom but rather upper right corner to lower left corner of the wiring box.. does that make sense?
#11
10-07-02, 10:03 PM
stevenardigo, Arlington Industries makes a fan/box for sloped ceilings.
Model #FB45
www.aifittings.com
You can request a sample.
Fred
Model #FB45
www.aifittings.com
You can request a sample.
Fred
#14
10-08-02, 10:55 PM
sloped ceiling
stevenardigo, I had the same problem when I installed my remote controlled Hunter ceiling fan. I got this metal box for ceiling fans from Home Depot. It has the regular size but it's 1" deep with 4 pre-drilled holes (2 holes to secure the box to the ceiling bracket and the other 2 holes to the fan bracket.) Ensure you use locktite on the threads of the extension pipe and the screws. It's important to power off prior to going up there.
#15
10-13-02, 10:58 AM
i just wanted to say thank you to all for their input. ive corrected the problem with multiple trips to the hardware store and up into the attic. if i ever install a ceiling fan on a sloped ceiling again, i think ill opt for the the electical box attached to a 2x4. the prefab braces arent designed well for a sloped ceiling. thanks again.
