is this grounding correct?

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Old 11-25-02, 08:59 PM
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is this grounding correct?

After reading some of the questions posted about stove receptacles im not sure if what i done is correct.

The feed to the stove is tree wires armour[no G wire]

The new stove has a four prong plug so i conected the four prong receptacle to the neutral and two hots and a separate #10 GROUND to a main cold water pipe near the panel.
I beleive that the armour conected to the panel is grounding the stove but i wasnt sure and i dont know if the #10 ground should be conected to panel or if is ok to be conected to the pipe
Stove works fine .
Panel has fuses and i dont think it has a ground bus bar.

is this setup ok?
Aprreciate some advice thanks a lot papi
 
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Old 11-25-02, 09:10 PM
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Is there a ground wire from the panel to the pipe? You can connect that ground wire to the neutral bar in the panel too,,, actually that the best.
 
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Old 11-25-02, 09:11 PM
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No, it's not okay. It is very not okay. You cannot use a nearby water pipe for grounding. It is neither safe nor allowed by code. If your range ever malfunctions, some poor kid washing his hands in your bathroom may get shocked. Never, ever use a nearby water pipe for grounding anything.

Your stove came with two alternative installation instructions, one for four-hole receptacles and one for three-hole receptacles. You need to go buy a three-wire range cord with a three-prong plug, and connect it according to the instructions.
 
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Old 11-25-02, 09:56 PM
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Thanks very much for prompt reply and alerting me of a potential dangerous situacion
If i desconect ground wire from the water pipe and leave the four prong receptacle with a disconected ground [providing armour is bonded to the panel] is this safe?

PANEL HAS A METAL STRAP CONECTED TO THE WATER PIPE

Is conecting the ground wire to the neutral bus a safe alternative?

Thanks a lot for great help papi
 
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Old 11-26-02, 05:47 AM
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The neutral bar is where it is supose to go in a main entrance panel. I kind of read the first post wrong,,, or didnt elaborate thouroughly at any rate. Technically you could clamp to a cold water line where it enters the house if the panel is bonded there,,(within the first 5 ft and if it is buried for at least 10 ft in the ground before it enters the house) which it should be. If it is just hooked to a nearby water line it isnt acceptable. By some kind of sideways implication I was trying to get you to check to make sure the panel was bonded to the water lines. The best place is the panel though. Something else I notice,, what type of metal strap is hooked to the water pipe? Is it a piece of muffler hanger or pipe hanger? I have seen that and it isnt good. It should be an approved clamp and wire. I saw one the other day that had ground wires hooked to plumbing and had a hoseclamp hooking the bonding wire to pipe. I shouldnt have made this confusing I guess,, but John says use 3 wire and he is the legitimate expert.
 

Last edited by sberry27; 11-26-02 at 06:05 AM.
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Old 11-26-02, 08:14 AM
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Old 11-26-02, 08:36 AM
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thanks very much sberry, i messure with an ohmmeter and there is a very good connection between the panel and the main water pipe,can see very well what kind of strap for is hiden by a wall in the basement .the neutral bus has 5 screws all taken if connecting there is it ok to pigtail ? Sorry about format beeb having problems posting repls thank a bunch papi
 
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Old 11-26-02, 09:04 AM
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Use of a four-prong plug with a disconnected ground is even worse than before! Do it right -- use a 3-prong plug and follow the installation instructions for such a connection. There is a slight modification required to the range itself. The instructions will show you how.

Use of an ohmmeter may tell you that there is a good connection, but it doesn't tell you if that connection takes a safe route or not. A low resistance level is not enough information.
 
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Old 11-26-02, 09:24 AM
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John,,, this is not an argument from me,, rather a question. His intention was to run another wire for the ground because there wasnt one,, not to merely leave it disconnected. Actually wouldnt the proper thing to do,, if it was mine I think,, would be to run a new 3 wire with ground. And,, if that strap connection was hidden and there was a metal water pipe entering the house,, to discontinue the strap and replace it with a wire and a clamp and install within 5 ft of entering the house. Also maybe get a piece of ground bar and bolt it to the box so you have somewhere to terminate ground wires to.
 
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Old 11-26-02, 09:40 AM
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Point taken, sberry. There are more than one way to do it correctly. Unfortunately, he isn't to any of them yet. No sense just going from one wrong way to another.
 
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Old 11-26-02, 09:44 AM
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Thanks again for replys. it is going to be a while before i can get the manuals for the stove,can i meantime conect that ground to the panel chassis or neutral bar ?
Most of the house has [email protected] no ground but i m wrong to assume that the panel chassis is grounded to the utility ?
How can i find out?

Many thanks papi
 
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Old 11-26-02, 09:49 AM
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If you can run that grounding wire to the panel, then go for it. It's the best you can do.
 
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Old 11-26-02, 10:05 AM
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John thanks so much again i like your NO COMPROMISE SAFETY approach that is how it sould be i feel bad having screw up so badly.
im going to run that ground and screw it to the panel,will this make it safe untill i get the manual and change it?

Also im wrong to assume that panel chassis is grounded to utility?
house was build in 1939.

regards papi
 
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Old 11-26-02, 01:48 PM
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Those fuse panels are designed as service entrance equipment,, and they are bonded to the neutral bar. I always try to disuade people from trying to use them as sub panels for that reason,,, they cant really be unbonded like a new breaker panel can. That should be able to be checked with your OHM meter,, just check between the neutral and the can,, or chassis as you described it.
 
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Old 11-26-02, 07:21 PM
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hi sberry just to clarify this is the main panel there is not sub.

i open it and found a very small grond bus just on top of the neutral bus,checked with ohmmeter and neutral,ground and chassis are all conected.i proceed to conect the ground wire from four prong stove receptacle to the ground bus in the panel after doing that i double check for continuity between chassis of the stove and the ground in one of the stove receptacles and they are conected also there is continuity with the recetacle box [metal].
i hope that this is safe for i imagine that this is what is done if i had a three wires plus ground feed originally. i guess that i was trying to provide for the missing ground.i would like to confirm that this is correct now.

Regarding the grounding in the cold water pipe there is a BIG clamp in the pipe with a screw holding a thick insulated wire [it looks like the wire used for the neutral in the 40 amps circuit]
that goes inside thje main disconect switch next to the meter.

This 100 amps switch conects to the meter and the meter with the panel all wires running inside a big metal conduit that i guess bonds and grounds the house wiring with the utility. please let me know what you think of all this regards papi
 
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