ceiling fan installation in concrete ceiling

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  #1  
Old 01-23-03, 02:13 PM
ed21842
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ceiling fan installation in concrete ceiling

I live in a condo on the ocean. The walls, ceiling and floors are all concrete. I would like to put up a ceiling fan in my living/kitchen area. There anre no electeical outlets in my ceiling. I can run a wire accross the concrete ceiling in the living room to the drop ceiling in the kitchen to connect up with the electrical supply lines. My question is: How do I anchor the fan to the ceiling. Wat type of electrical box would provide the best support without being very noticable? Any help would be greatly appreceiated
 
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  #2  
Old 01-24-03, 09:10 AM
lestrician
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I'm not sure if you're talking about running the wire attached to the underside of the ceiling, or above it. The answer would be different depending on which method you are using.
 
  #3  
Old 01-24-03, 09:39 AM
texsparky
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You will need a fan-rated box,a rotary hammer,and concrete fasteners.Heres a link to the fasteners I reccomend.
http://www.confast.com/products/tap_con.asp#info

How are you planning on running the wiring?In conduit?
 
  #4  
Old 01-29-03, 08:14 PM
ed21842
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Thanks for the reply. I am familiar with tapcon fasteners as I have used them in various places before.
I will run the wire across the exposed ceiling encased in one of those white plastic runners. I just hope the fasteners I use will hold the fan up on the ceiling and the damn thing won't take off like a demented buzzsaw the first time I turn it on high.
 
  #5  
Old 01-29-03, 09:28 PM
Master Electrician
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Tapcons Are great, And I have used them for many projects, But I don't know if I would
trust them under the constant vibration of a fan. I could only think when the inside is
heated, and the outside is cooled there can be contraction, and expansion in the concrete.
Along with vibration, and movement in the concrete I couldn’t see them lasting much
more than a few years, But I have never tried. Maybe Tom has, and has very good luck
with them.
If I was selling this project to a customer I would only think of a way to get some type of
anchor "allthread" that would penetrate through the concrete, to where I could get a nut
on both sides that I know would outlast me, and the fan.
 
  #6  
Old 01-29-03, 10:37 PM
KenD
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I would make sure to use a fan rated box made for use with drop ceilings. Also Aphares is correct about the life expectancy of those anchors. You really wouldn't want to put up a anchor holding a fan that might give way in a year or two.

Now running a rod all the way thru would be the most secure method, but a lot of times this just isn't possible.

Now depending on the hardness of the concrete, One of the things I have had a lot of sucess with is using multible lag bolts and shields to hold a bracket that would hold the fan box. If the concrete is old and "soft", I have used 1/4" lag shields with 5/16 lag bolts. Because you will be using a undersized lag shield, it is important to make sure you have a lag bolt that can stand the increased torque of installation.

Others out there may also offer alternatives... You just need to choose the right one for your situation.
 
  #7  
Old 01-30-03, 08:18 AM
brickeyee
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Rawl, Steel Drop in, Cat # 6304. This size uses 1/4-20 bolts and uses a 3/8 hole. These are all steel expansion anchors. They have an outer sleeve with 4 slits and an innner expanding plug. Drill hole, insert anchor, use punch to set plug. They are used in larger sizes for anchoring pipes in commercial work. I would never use a lead anchor in a withdrawal application. The other gotchas you will run in to are that the holes in the box may not be large enough for 1/4 inch bolts. Drill them out to 1/4 inch. The hole for the ground screw for the box is normally on the back, and you will not be able to use it. Find another 10-32 hole for the ground, or drill and tap one in the side of the box. When you mount the box use grade C loctite on the anchors (the blue stuff).
 
  #8  
Old 01-30-03, 09:56 AM
texsparky
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This is from Confast website..1/4" screw embedded 1-3/4" in 3275 psi concrete has a 2100 lb. pullout value.
All pullout values are based on close-tolerance holes drilled with Elco carbide tipped drill bits. Designated holding power depends on the quality of the masonry material, depth of embedment, and proper hole size. These figures are offered only as a guide and are not guaranteed by Elco Textron. The figures indicate average pullout and shear failure values. A. safety factor of 4:1. or 25% of ultimate pullout value, is generally accepted as a safe working load, however, reference should always be made to applicable codes for the specific safe working ration.

With the spacing required for drop in anchors,you would only be able to use one on a fan box.
 
  #9  
Old 01-30-03, 01:53 PM
brickeyee
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The minimum spacing for 3/8 drop ins is 2 1/2 inches. Should be easy to get in a 4 inch box. The problem with tapcons in this application is the vibration they may be subjected to. I have used both and had much better luck getting drop ins to hold for overhead loads than tapcons. Producing the perfect size drilled hole for a tapcon to reach its rated load in tension has been touchy for my workers. They wedging action of the drop ins allows for more slop in the hole while maintaining adequate pull out strength.
 
  #10  
Old 01-30-03, 04:50 PM
texsparky
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Wink

Not saying that either anchor is better but I have always liked the tapcon and havent experienced any problems with them.

This is the spacing requirements from Confasts website on drop in anchors

As a rule of thumb, the expansion industry has established a minimum standard of ten (10) anchor diameters for spacing between anchors and five (5) anchor diameters from an unsupported edge. When vibration or sudden impact are part of the load condition, spacing between anchors should be increased.
 
  #11  
Old 01-30-03, 06:53 PM
brickeyee
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I quoted the information from Rawls website for the part numer given. The anchor diameter is the fastener size, not the hole size. Thus 10 times .25 inch is 2.5 inches.
 
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