220 volt line installation

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  #1  
Old 02-06-03, 04:56 PM
strigilio
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220 volt line installation

I recently installed a 220 V line to accomodate a Kenmore brand dryer for rental property. When I ran the dryer, it turned on and the motor was running and was working in all modes with the exception of it heating up. The tenant bought it used and apparently it used to heat up at some point.

I understand that their are many possibilities for a no heat situation. To my understanding, the person who hooked up the exhaust (not sure if it was a repair technician) mentioned that the dryer was only getting 110 V and that was the reason it was not heating up. My question is could the connections either in the panel or outlet be miswired somehow to cause the no heat problem or the 110 V suppossed problem? And wouldn't the motor be working if there was only 110V?

This 220 line is a 30 amp 3 prong outlet. I measured with a volt meter across the two hot on the outlet and measured 240 V. In the panel I have a double pole 30 amp breaker and I used 10/3 wire. Any suggestions? I'am going there to insure and verify the correct voltages by meter.
 
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  #2  
Old 02-06-03, 05:01 PM
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As a new installation you should have used 10/3wg. The way you have it connected is correct for a 3 wire hookup. If you have 240 bewteen the 2 hots it is correct. You should also be able to measure 120 from either hot to the 3 prong.
 
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Old 02-06-03, 05:03 PM
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A clothes dryer needs both 120 and 240. Your symptoms are consistent with one hot being dead. This would indeed cause the 120-volt motor to work perfectly and the 240-volt heating elements to not work at all. However your 240 volt measurement with your meter seems to contradict that.

Your 10/3 has three insulated conductors (black, red, white) plus one bare grounding wire, right?

Most likely you miswired the receptacle. At the new receptacle, you had four wires and three connections. What did you connect to what? Also, please describe where you connected each of those four wires at the panel.
 
  #4  
Old 02-07-03, 04:05 AM
strigilio
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Yes, I did use 10/3wg.

In the panel, I wired the black and red to the 30 amp double pole breaker and the white and bare ground to the neutral / ground lug strip with all the other whites and bare wires.

At the receptacle, I wired the black and red wires to the slanted terminals and the white wire to the lone terminal on top (or bottom, depending on how your looking at it) and the bare ground to the backing of the mounting plate.

I did notice that on the receptacle package that there was an X, Y and Z identification for hookup and I thought I wired the correct configurations. I made sure the white was connected to the neutral terminal; however, I may have been confused. How could I tell?
 
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Old 02-07-03, 07:56 AM
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Could it be possible that the heating element in the dryer is burnt out?
 
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Old 02-07-03, 08:27 AM
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What you did sounds correct. It does sound like a burnt out heating element. You can buy replacement elements and they aren't too hard to install. Take the back cover off and visually inspect the element. You can ususally see the break, or you can remove the element and test it with an ohmmeter.
 
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Old 02-07-03, 10:26 AM
Sparksone42
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Just my opinion here: I read your problem and I read everyones responses and they are all good.

Going back to your question of "why no heat?" Before you go and pull the dryer back off and run to the store to get an element. You took your voltage reading between the two hots. I didn't see where you said that you read the voltage between a hot and a ground. Whenever it is suspected that you may be getting only partial voltage the only way to be sure is to measure the voltage of each leg to ground. I suspect that if you go back and do that you will find that you are losing one leg.

If you find that you indeed have 120 volts to ground on each leg then I would remove the back cover of the dryer and the very first thing that I would check are the firestats. These are small devices that are placed in the control circuit and they are ususally physically placed close to the air outflow. Their purpose is to monitor the temperature and if it gets too high they open and shut off the heating elements. Once they open they never close again and they will cause the same thing that you are experiencing. These devices need to be checked with an ohmmeter or a continuity tester. If they are found to be bad don't make the fatal mistake of "wiring around" them. Take the time and go to an appliance parts place and get their replacements. Sometimes these burn open due to dirt and debris that gets in the dryer vent and causes excess heat to build.

Good Luck
 
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Old 02-07-03, 04:17 PM
strigilio
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Thank you all for your input and suggestions.

So then if I were to measure between one hot and neutral, should It read 120 V? And the same for the other hot to neutral?

Should I read the same 120 V from one hot to ground and 120 V from the other hot to ground?

The reason for the questions is that someone at this perticular house said I miswired it and the dryer is getting only 110 V and therefore cannot heat up.

Based on my wiring description in the last post I really don't think that is the case and I need a precise voltage check plan when I arrive there.
 
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Old 02-07-03, 04:51 PM
old_timer
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kenmore dryer

based on the info you provided and the responses (all correct), and the fact that i have a kenmore dryer also, i would say that you have either a faulty therm-o-disc, or a faulty heating element. i would check the connections on the therm-o-discs, (there should be 2), first. they are little thermostats mounted somewhere on the airflow of the dryer, for high and low temps.

hope this helps,
old_timer
 
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Old 02-08-03, 06:28 AM
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Regardless of wether or not the circuit is the problem, this installation is not code compliant. All new dryer circuits require a 4 wire branch circuit, a 4 wire receptacle, and the dryer should be properly changed to a 4 wire cord. Only a qualified electrician can perform installations on a rental property, please call one.
 
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Old 02-08-03, 10:32 AM
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Wow Bolted Fault, excellent catch. Don't know why the rest of us missed this (should be) obvious point.

strigilio, it may be important to distinguish between absolutely no heat in the dryer, and merely very little heat. Do a little investigation.

And take all those voltage measurements that you mentioned and post back the results.
 
  #12  
Old 02-09-03, 04:03 AM
strigilio
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The circuit seems to be the trouble.

I verified the voltage measurements and these are the results. I measured on the receptacle 120 V from the one slanted hot teminal (black) to neutral, 120 V from the other slanted hot terminal (red) to neutral.
Then I measured 0 V between the two slanted terminals. So there is no 220 V now. The day I installed this, there was 241 V across the slanted hot terminals.

I measured at the panel on the breaker. Same result, 120 V from the red to the neutral / ground bus and 120 V from the black to neutral / ground bus. 0 V across the red and black breaker terminals. Just for the record, I replaced the breaker for the sake of doubt. Didn't change anything.

This seems puzzling to me. Unless it is this perticular system / breaker panel. The meter is inside in the basement and has a 30 amp screw type fuse built in. From the meter there is a cable with what appears to be two 8 gauge wires coming out leading to the panel for supplying power to the panel. One wire is used for the hot terminal bus and the other wire is used for the neutral bus. It is an older system and it looked like at some point there was a service change over from fuses and the panel being used now is Westinghouse capable of 6 breakers.

Could this system not be capable or compatable?
 
  #13  
Old 02-09-03, 08:19 AM
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You don't have 220 volts in the house. From the description you give you only have a 110 volt 30 amp service.You desparately need to upgrade the service. Unless you do you can't use the dryer.
 
  #14  
Old 02-09-03, 10:24 AM
texsparky
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The day I installed this, there was 241 V across the slanted hot terminals.
How is this possible with the 120volt service you described?
 
  #15  
Old 02-09-03, 12:08 PM
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From the meter there is a cable with what appears to be two 8 gauge wires coming out leading to the panel for supplying power to the panel. One wire is used for the hot terminal bus and the other wire is used for the neutral bus.
Only 2 wires one on hot and one on neutral. Unless this is being described incorrect then it can't possibly 240 volt service. I have seen this in a cottage that was built in the 1930s.
The meter was misread or misused as the reading is not 241v now. Power could have been off and really could have been 241mV.
 
  #16  
Old 02-10-03, 08:49 AM
Gary Tait
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Connect thr one hot to neutral You will get less heat this way
though. Be sure to choose the hot that runs olny the heater,
the other runs the 120V electrics as well.
 
  #17  
Old 02-10-03, 10:55 AM
grignon
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A 220/240 V circuit is actually 2 110/120V sources 180 degrees out of phase. When one is swinging poitive with respect to ground, the other swings an equal amount negative with respect to ground. Current flows back and forth between these two sources without going to neutral/ground
In your case, both terminals have the same voltage source, so there is no voltage difference across the heating element and thus no current flow. The motor,timer switch circuits are picked off one of the 120V sources and returned to the neutral. That's why the dryer can turn but not burn. A typical meter will not reveal differences in voltage phase.
Regardless, you need an electrician to properly CYA.
 
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Old 02-10-03, 11:07 AM
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Are there other 240 loads on this property? Also I have seen circuits test 120 to N from each leg and not have 240. They were on Fed Stab Loc panels where the divider had not been straddled with the double pole breaker, fed a sub for dryer just like this.
 
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