Thanks (and I'm back for more)
#1
Thanks (and I'm back for more)
All (especially the regulars):
Just wanted to say thanks for all the advice. Over the past few months, I've asked several questions and done a lot of lurking here. We are building a new house, and I set my mind on doing all the wiring myself. Just something I always wanted to do, and I was able to include some automation as well as low voltage (phone, ethernet, whole house audio, video distribution, etc.) By way of background, I have a degree in Electrical Engineering, but as I have told many people over the last several months, an "EE" degree does not an electrician make.
I've read three good books cover to cover (Practical Electrical Wiring, Electrical Wiring-Residential, and Wiring a Home: For Pros by Pros), and have received a lot of good information here as well. So to all that have so kindly helped, thank you.
It took me about 6 weeks and about 8000 feet of wire, but our 3750 sq. ft. home is now wired and my work is being forever covered with drywall. The rough-in inspection went fine. And I thought building my deck was a lot of work...
But as I alluded to in the title, I'm back for more. In my area, the next step is the panel inspection. Because we will be heating/cooling with a geothermal heatpump with a 20 KW emergency backup, will have a subpanel headed out to the pool soon, and will have a dedicated workshop with some pretty robust circuits of it's own, I ended up going with 400 amp service and two parallel 200 amp panels.
I am looking for techniques/procedures on how to distribute the loads over the two panels. I have a total of 41 home runs not counting the future pool wiring. Here are some considerations:
--The geothermal heatpump requires three circuits by itself: a 50A and 60A for the backup heat and a 60A for normal ops. Better to split these circuits over two panel or keep them together in one? The HVAC guy told me that the worst case would be that all four backup elements are running in which case the 60A normal ops circuit would not be running at all, but I haven't been able to verify that, and he didn't give me a warm fuzzy that he was 100%sure.
--I am planning to place the subpanel for the pool (probably 60A??) in the same panel as the geothermal backup heat because the two circuits will never be active at the same time (Pool only in the warm months, and backup heat only in the coldest months)
Beyond those thoughts, I haven't seen or read much to help guide me here. i.e. is it better to fill up one panel and leave room for expansion in the second, or split the loads evenly amongst the two panels (seems more logical to me)?
Any help will be appreciated!
Finally, a question on disconnects. The geothermal unit is not hooked up yet. I will probably have my builder's electrician do that because:
1) I am tired. Who's idea was it to wire this place during the coldest February in seven years?
2) My brain is full. Don't know if I have room to learn anymore.
Anyway, in the event I change my mind... the heatpump is within line of sight of the main panels, but just barely (gotta tilt your head a bit) and probably not after I eventually finish the basement. Is it generally acceptable to use those devices that install around a breaker that allow that breaker to be padlocked open as the disconnect?
The HVAC contractor says there are disconnect switches INSIDE the unit. I haven't looked real close but only saw 4 fuses.
I guess my question then is: What constitutes a disconnect for this appliance with it's three circuits?
Thanks again for the past advice.
Rob
P.S. I've decided you guys are underpaid...
Just wanted to say thanks for all the advice. Over the past few months, I've asked several questions and done a lot of lurking here. We are building a new house, and I set my mind on doing all the wiring myself. Just something I always wanted to do, and I was able to include some automation as well as low voltage (phone, ethernet, whole house audio, video distribution, etc.) By way of background, I have a degree in Electrical Engineering, but as I have told many people over the last several months, an "EE" degree does not an electrician make.
I've read three good books cover to cover (Practical Electrical Wiring, Electrical Wiring-Residential, and Wiring a Home: For Pros by Pros), and have received a lot of good information here as well. So to all that have so kindly helped, thank you.
It took me about 6 weeks and about 8000 feet of wire, but our 3750 sq. ft. home is now wired and my work is being forever covered with drywall. The rough-in inspection went fine. And I thought building my deck was a lot of work...
But as I alluded to in the title, I'm back for more. In my area, the next step is the panel inspection. Because we will be heating/cooling with a geothermal heatpump with a 20 KW emergency backup, will have a subpanel headed out to the pool soon, and will have a dedicated workshop with some pretty robust circuits of it's own, I ended up going with 400 amp service and two parallel 200 amp panels.
I am looking for techniques/procedures on how to distribute the loads over the two panels. I have a total of 41 home runs not counting the future pool wiring. Here are some considerations:
--The geothermal heatpump requires three circuits by itself: a 50A and 60A for the backup heat and a 60A for normal ops. Better to split these circuits over two panel or keep them together in one? The HVAC guy told me that the worst case would be that all four backup elements are running in which case the 60A normal ops circuit would not be running at all, but I haven't been able to verify that, and he didn't give me a warm fuzzy that he was 100%sure.
--I am planning to place the subpanel for the pool (probably 60A??) in the same panel as the geothermal backup heat because the two circuits will never be active at the same time (Pool only in the warm months, and backup heat only in the coldest months)
Beyond those thoughts, I haven't seen or read much to help guide me here. i.e. is it better to fill up one panel and leave room for expansion in the second, or split the loads evenly amongst the two panels (seems more logical to me)?
Any help will be appreciated!
Finally, a question on disconnects. The geothermal unit is not hooked up yet. I will probably have my builder's electrician do that because:
1) I am tired. Who's idea was it to wire this place during the coldest February in seven years?
2) My brain is full. Don't know if I have room to learn anymore.
Anyway, in the event I change my mind... the heatpump is within line of sight of the main panels, but just barely (gotta tilt your head a bit) and probably not after I eventually finish the basement. Is it generally acceptable to use those devices that install around a breaker that allow that breaker to be padlocked open as the disconnect?
The HVAC contractor says there are disconnect switches INSIDE the unit. I haven't looked real close but only saw 4 fuses.
I guess my question then is: What constitutes a disconnect for this appliance with it's three circuits?
Thanks again for the past advice.
Rob
P.S. I've decided you guys are underpaid...
#2
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This is going to sound kind of mixed up,, but,, you might want to try to split the heavy loads that can be running at the same time. Reason being,, and this is just food for thought not gospel is that an entrance panel is protected by a main breaker but can have hundreds of ampacity of branch circuit breakers installed in it so it would be a good thing if a bunch of them didnt come on at the same time and send the current draw past 200 on one of the panels. Remember a bit for incidentals like kids and hair dryers and microwaves,, ha. I am not sure on the disconnects but I seem to remember there may be a certain distance from the units.
#3
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: port chester n y
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I hope all the Branch-Circuit cables at the panels are thouroughly identified.----The "standard" numerical identification of the panel circuits are---Left column counting down 1--3-5-7-etc.----Right column CD----2-4-6-8-etc. If you have "Right" and "Left" feeder conductors terminating on the Main Lugs on the top of the panel breaker- assembly,let's color-code the "Right" conductor as the "Red" feeder-conductor and the "Left" "as-is"--Black.This is beacuse the 3-wire Branch-Circuit cables will have Red and Black conductors.At each panel test for 220 volts between the #1 circuit-breaker and the "Red" feeder conductor. If you read zero volts then the color-code "sequence" reading down is ---#1 Red-#3 Black-#5 Red-#7 Black-etc.---"ditto" the Right column.If you read 220 volts then the sequence is----#1 Black-#3 Red- #5-Black- #7 Red, etc.---ditto the Right column. Obviously when you connect the wires of any 3-wire cable to the CB terminals you'll adhere to the color-code.If you have two 2-wire 120 volt Branch-Circuits with equal loads then connecting one Black to the "Red" section and the other Back to the "Black" section will balance the load on the feeders to the panel.Be prepared to record in table-form a description of the circuit connected to each breaker.-----Any Heating/Cooling circuits that will operate on emergency power will have to terminate in a panel that is automaticaly switched to either generator power or utility power by a transfer switch..------When designing your pool electrical system try to locate as much control and circuit devices as possible in-doors, and not exposed to the weather. For example, if there is a filter-pump controlled by a timer, then the circuit-breaker,the timer contol,and the motor-starter should all be located in-doors. The only item required at the pump-motor location is a motor dis-connect .----Good Luck!!
#4
Originally posted by PATTBAA
I hope all the Branch-Circuit cables at the panels are thouroughly identified.
They are, although with some free volunteer help I received, I had to backtrack a couple at the end when I was giving everything a "once over."
Any Heating/Cooling circuits that will operate on emergency power will have to terminate in a panel that is automaticaly switched to either generator power or utility power by a transfer switch.
I should have used the term "auxillary heat" as it is there to supplement the geothermal heatpump ( http://www.waterfurnace.com ) when it runs out of capacity vs. a source to provided heat when the power goes out. Still a good point if I decide to go with a generator at some point!!
When designing your pool electrical system try to locate as much control and circuit devices as possible in-doors, and not exposed to the weather. For example, if there is a filter-pump controlled by a timer, then the circuit-breaker,the timer contol,and the motor-starter should all be located in-doors. The only item required at the pump-motor location is a motor dis-connect .
Another good point. My subpanel will go to a 10x16 shed with a concrete floor. The subpanel and equipment will all be enclosed.
Good Luck!!
Thanks for the informative post and reply!!
I hope all the Branch-Circuit cables at the panels are thouroughly identified.
They are, although with some free volunteer help I received, I had to backtrack a couple at the end when I was giving everything a "once over."
Any Heating/Cooling circuits that will operate on emergency power will have to terminate in a panel that is automaticaly switched to either generator power or utility power by a transfer switch.
I should have used the term "auxillary heat" as it is there to supplement the geothermal heatpump ( http://www.waterfurnace.com ) when it runs out of capacity vs. a source to provided heat when the power goes out. Still a good point if I decide to go with a generator at some point!!
When designing your pool electrical system try to locate as much control and circuit devices as possible in-doors, and not exposed to the weather. For example, if there is a filter-pump controlled by a timer, then the circuit-breaker,the timer contol,and the motor-starter should all be located in-doors. The only item required at the pump-motor location is a motor dis-connect .
Another good point. My subpanel will go to a 10x16 shed with a concrete floor. The subpanel and equipment will all be enclosed.
Good Luck!!
Thanks for the informative post and reply!!