grounding panal
#1
03-27-03, 03:18 AM
grounding panal
I'm building a house and I'm getting ready to wire up my panel, I bought a square D 200 amp, 40 cir. 40 space, and I got 4/00 wire going to the meter, 2 hot wires 1 commom wire and a ground. Do I screw a ground terminal on the side and run the grounds there. or can I put the ground in the lug next to the common.??? and then have the grounds and commoms run next to each other down the same commom bus terminal??? thanks, Buckman
#2
03-27-03, 06:14 AM
You said that you have 4/00 wires going to the meter.You need 3 # 2/0 going to the meter.(2 hots and 1 neutral). From the panel,you need a # 4 ground wire going to the main water line and attached within 5 ft. of the entrance of the water line. (if the water line is metallic and in direct contact with the earth for at least 10 feet). You will also need a # 6 wire minimum going to 2 ground rods that are spaced at least 6 feet apart.
The ground wire and the common (neutral white wire) will both attach to the same bus in the service panel.The green bonding screw that attaches the neutral bar to the panel can should be installed.
The ground wire and the common (neutral white wire) will both attach to the same bus in the service panel.The green bonding screw that attaches the neutral bar to the panel can should be installed.
#5
03-27-03, 09:19 AM
I have aluminum #4/0, 2 hots 1 neutral, and 1 ground, but I think the ground is a little smaller. which is coming in from the meter.
on my panel there is a neutral bar running down both sides.. Don't know what green bonding there could be??
on my panel there is a neutral bar running down both sides.. Don't know what green bonding there could be??
#6
03-27-03, 09:34 AM
I have #4 alum. coming in from the meter base, 2 hot 1 commom and 1 bare ground. the common and ground are together in the meter. then I have a small copper ground wire which is connected to a rod 8ft in the ground to the meter base commom and ground connector. thanks for any more help that you can provide, Buckman
#7
03-27-03, 09:34 AM
On service entrance there is a green screw that is to be installed that bonds the neutral bar to the box itself. Then grounds and whites go on same bars. I didnt look where you were at but the 4th wire is smaller and shouldnt go to the meter but to grounding electrode, either rods or uffer. OR,, Is there an outside disconnect between this panel and the meter?
#8
03-27-03, 09:39 AM
You posted while I was writing I guess,,, ok,, who bonded the ground and the neutral at the meter? This is a no, no. 3 wires from meter base to panel. Add the bond screw and the ground wire, minimum of number 6 to the 2 ground rods fed continious thru the first clamp to the second rod. The bond is sposed to occur at the panel. You need to mark the neutral wire with white tape on each end also.
#9
03-27-03, 10:30 AM
I have 4 wires from the meter.. 2 hot, 1 commom with a white stripe, and a bare ground. the meter base that I got from the power co. has 2 lugs for each hot and has 1 for both the commom and ground. and 1 small lug for the ground wire that goes down to the grounding rod....
#10
03-27-03, 10:44 AM
You are going to have to do some study here I guess. Some equipment has places to hook stuff dont mean all of it has to be used. http://www.homewiringandmore.com/homewiringusa/2002/maindwelling/meter/meter.html
Here is a link to service entrance installs. About a quarter way down the page it describes the hook ups you are talking about and down about 3/4th after tha load calcs he talks about hooking grounds up between meter and panel. The only time its done is if the utility insists and the electric inspector demands it,,, other wise it is not common practice and is generally a bad idea as it invites parrallel paths for grounds.
Here is a link to service entrance installs. About a quarter way down the page it describes the hook ups you are talking about and down about 3/4th after tha load calcs he talks about hooking grounds up between meter and panel. The only time its done is if the utility insists and the electric inspector demands it,,, other wise it is not common practice and is generally a bad idea as it invites parrallel paths for grounds.
#11
03-27-03, 01:45 PM
Buckman-Do you live in the USA?
I ask that question because it's my understanding that 4-wires from the meter base to the service panel is code in Canada.
If you live in the USA, then only 3-wires are necessary from the meter base to the service panel per the NEC.
All service equipment, service raceways, etc., are to be grounded via the neutral (grounded) conductor on the line side of the service panel. The line side is between the service drop and the neutral (grounded service conductor) connection in the service panel. A grounding conducter is not allowed to ground said service stuff per the NEC.
Hope this helps!!
If you live in the USA, then only 3-wires are necessary from the meter base to the service panel per the NEC.
All service equipment, service raceways, etc., are to be grounded via the neutral (grounded) conductor on the line side of the service panel. The line side is between the service drop and the neutral (grounded service conductor) connection in the service panel. A grounding conducter is not allowed to ground said service stuff per the NEC.
Hope this helps!!
#12
03-28-03, 08:45 AM
Our local PoCo allows the ground to be terminated in the meter meter can and provide a lug next to the neutral for this purpose.They will accept the ground either way.
Your PoCo should provide you with a diagram of how they require their services to be installed.
Your PoCo should provide you with a diagram of how they require their services to be installed.
#13
03-30-03, 02:40 PM
Buckman
Make sure you use a dioxing agent on the alum.
Your three wire set up is correct.
Next to the neutral use that screw and run a #6awg copper wire(I always use #4) to your grounding electrode ie. (a ground rod).
Use the green screw that can with the panel to "bond" the neutral bar to the box. Do not overtighten.
Take an additional #6 from the ground bar to any and all metal piping.
You may place 2 grounds under one lug however you may only place one neutral under a lug.
Mike
Make sure you use a dioxing agent on the alum.
Your three wire set up is correct.
Next to the neutral use that screw and run a #6awg copper wire(I always use #4) to your grounding electrode ie. (a ground rod).
Use the green screw that can with the panel to "bond" the neutral bar to the box. Do not overtighten.
Take an additional #6 from the ground bar to any and all metal piping.
You may place 2 grounds under one lug however you may only place one neutral under a lug.
Mike
#15
03-30-03, 04:04 PM
Using the 2002 NEC
250.66(A) ....."not required to be larger than 6AWG copper"....
This is new construction in the original post.
He may use a ground rod and "bond" the metal lines at any convenient point. 250.104 also see table 250.122
If the water line is the primary grounding electrode the required supplimental ground rod ,250.53(D)(2), must be at least 6' awat from the incoming waterlines, 250.53(B).
Mike
250.66(A) ....."not required to be larger than 6AWG copper"....
This is new construction in the original post.
He may use a ground rod and "bond" the metal lines at any convenient point. 250.104 also see table 250.122
If the water line is the primary grounding electrode the required supplimental ground rod ,250.53(D)(2), must be at least 6' awat from the incoming waterlines, 250.53(B).
Mike
#16
03-30-03, 06:17 PM
If the pipe is going to be used as a grounding electrode it needs to be number 4 and be within 5 feet of where it enters the building. If it is not being used as electrode it can be bonded at any convenient point. The number 6 minimum for ground rods with 200 Amp service.
#17
03-30-03, 08:35 PM
Grounding
jxofaltrds,
If the water pipe is available,it has to be used as part of the grounding electrode system and supplemented by 2 ground rods or 1 rod with a resistance to ground of 25 ohms or less. Not vice versa as your post indicated. 250.104 pertains to bonding ,not the Grounding Electrode.
If the water pipe is available,it has to be used as part of the grounding electrode system and supplemented by 2 ground rods or 1 rod with a resistance to ground of 25 ohms or less. Not vice versa as your post indicated. 250.104 pertains to bonding ,not the Grounding Electrode.
250.50 Grounding Electrode System. If available on the premises at each buillding or structure served, each item in 250.52 (A) (1) through (A) (6) shall be bonded together to form the grounding electrode system. Where none of these electrodes are available, one or more of the electrodes specified in 250.52 (A) (4) through (A) (7) shall be installed and used.
250.52 Grounding Electrodes
(A) Electrodes Permitted for Grounding
(1) Metal Underground Water Pipe. A metal underground water pipe in direct contact with the earth for 3.0 m (10 ft) or more (including any metal well casing effectively bonded to the pipe) and electrically continuous (or made electrically continuous by bonding around insulating joints or insulating pipe) to the points of connection of the grounding electrode conductor and the bonding conductors. Interior metal water piping located more than 1.52 m (5 ft.) from the point of entrance to the building shall not be used as a part of the grounding electrode system or as a conductor to interconnect electrodes that are part of the grounding electrode system.
250.52 Grounding Electrodes
(A) Electrodes Permitted for Grounding
(1) Metal Underground Water Pipe. A metal underground water pipe in direct contact with the earth for 3.0 m (10 ft) or more (including any metal well casing effectively bonded to the pipe) and electrically continuous (or made electrically continuous by bonding around insulating joints or insulating pipe) to the points of connection of the grounding electrode conductor and the bonding conductors. Interior metal water piping located more than 1.52 m (5 ft.) from the point of entrance to the building shall not be used as a part of the grounding electrode system or as a conductor to interconnect electrodes that are part of the grounding electrode system.
#20
04-01-03, 05:54 PM
Tex
I am talking about a "bond" when the electrode is a ground rod.
If the water line is the electrode then the 5' applies. Also jump the meter.
My example "assumes" new construction with a ground rod and plastic water lines supplying the home.
Even if the water line is metal there is no code requirement that it be the primary electrode.
Mike
I am talking about a "bond" when the electrode is a ground rod.
If the water line is the electrode then the 5' applies. Also jump the meter.
My example "assumes" new construction with a ground rod and plastic water lines supplying the home.
Even if the water line is metal there is no code requirement that it be the primary electrode.
Mike
#21
04-01-03, 06:17 PM
Although there is a lot of helpful info in previous posts, I think we're getting away from the question...... in a MAIN service, can the neutrals and grounds basically be run on the same bus, and the answer is yes. Although you will need to listen to all the great advice in here, you can run grounds and neutrals on the same bus in a MAIN disconnect. I personally try to keep them separate, but that is NOT an NEC requirement.
#22
04-02-03, 09:15 AM
Yes there a lot of good info here, and thanks!!! since my first posting I have completed the panel for my rough-in.. After checking near-by houses I did it the same. With an 8 ft rod in the ground, a copper wire goes to the meter... from the meter I have 4/000 alum. 2 hot wires with there own lugs..... and a neutral and bare ground installed together...and in the panel the ground goes to it's own bus... thanks agian, Buckman
