Junction box access

Hi all,

I'm finishing my basement and have stumbled across a couple of junction boxes. When the house was first built, the electrician evidently lost track of some wires and cut and spliced new wires via a junction box in a couple of places (leaving wires that don't go anywhere in my walls). Do I need to leave an access hole/door where junction boxes are attached to my floor joists (drywall ceiling)? If so, I may re-wire in order to eliminate the boxes.

Thanks,
Jim

 

All splices must be accessible. So yes, you will need to rewire the circuits if you don't want to have a blank cover showing.

 

I thought so. Since they're against the joists, can I leave an access door in the drywall or do I have to move the box so that it will be flush with the drywall and put a cover on it?

One will be easy to re-wire, the other won't.

Thanks,
Jim

 

Either method as long as the splice is accessible. Usually access doors are installed to get to plumbing valves and such. Refastening your box so that it protrudes 1/2 below the joist (for 1/2" sheetrock) would be the easiest way to handle it. You shouldn't have to disconnect the splices - just pry the box off the joist with a screwdriver (if it's a nail-on) and reposition the box.

I'm still unsure about the "leaving wires that don't go anywhere in my walls" comment. I'm assuming you got rid of those.

 

No, they're still there. The "electrician" (I use the term loosely) drilled 15 or 20 holes in the drywall (this was as the house was being built - I snuck in there once in a while) looking for a lost wire, I guess. Eventually he cut them and started over leaving the old wiring in the walls. It's cut at floor level (I can see it from the basement) and must just hang in the wall by the box. I'm not sure why, but running from that box is some 14/3 wire with a junction box on one of my floor joists. From the junction box it runs to another switch. It's a 3-way circuit that went awry, I guess. It passed whatever inspection the town did.

I'm going to hack a hole in the wall by the switch and run some new 14/3 w/out the junction box. It's a 3-way circuit for a floodlight with a switch in the family room and a switch in the basement. I think the 14/3 just runs from switch to switch - I haven't looke really hard at it yet.

Same story on the 2nd junction box - another 14/3 cable for a 3-way circuit with a box in the middle for some reason. I know I have similar issues upstairs where I can't see what's in the walls.

I also have plumbing in the walls that doesn't go anywhere, too, but that's another story.

Jim

 

If the wiring is truly abandoned (i.e., disconnected at both ends and with no possible way to energize it), then you may leave it there and conceal it.

 

It had something to do with my family room lights and flood lights. There are 4 pairs of recessed lights and two floodlights. 1 pair of the recessed lights is a 3-way circuit, as is one of the flood lights. The guy must've gotten all balled up in his shorts when it came time to hook it all up. After all the hole drilling and abandoned wires I still had switches doing odd things. They had to come in and open the walls again up after I moved in.

I may not mess with the abandoned wires - I can't think of any reason anyone would energize them. I do want to ditch the junction boxes, though, so I'll have to open up the wall to run the new wire anyway. If the opportunity presents itself I'll take the abandoned stuff out. Otherwise, it's not hurting anything.

Thanks,
Jim

 

You need to examine the wiring in the switch boxes. The electrician may have cut the wire where it comes out below the floor, AND cut it where it enters the switch box and pushed it out of the box. If the box has what appears to be an opening that is no longer being used then that is probably what has happened. Since the cable is stapled inside the wall, the only way to remove it would be to open up the wall and create sheetrock patch work which isn't necessary. If the cable is indeed dead on both ends it can be sheetrocked over.

You don't have to damage your sheetrock to pull in your new 3-wire cables if you can successfully "fish" the wire into the box. Cut a slot below the box (that your plate will cover after you are done) and have someone push a fish tape or piece of straight stiff wire up through the hole below the wall. The fish tape should be pushed up no more than 5 feet (for a switch). Look through your slot with a flashlight and when you see the tape, use a wire hook and guide it into a hole in the box. This will take some coordination and communication between the two of you, but is not too difficult and is common practice for an experienced electrician. You may have to try and put some subtle bends in the fish tape to get it where you need it. Fishing wire is an "art" and an experienced electrician knows many tricks to perform his craft.

 

I'm reasonably sure he did just what you've described - cut it in the basement and the box and pushed it out of the box. Then he pulled new stuff up to the box (still doesn't explain why he put a junction box in, tho). If my suspicions are correct, the "new" wire isn't stapled (it was pulled after the drywall was put up) so I can attach new 3-wire to the end of it and pull it down through the wall and into the basement. From there, it's just tacked up to the top plate in the basement and runs over to a 3-way switch. All really easy to get at.

If it is indeed stapled in the wall, I'll just cut it on both ends and push it out of the box. I have fish tape I can use to pull new stuff through - I just thought that per code it had to be stapled w/in 8" of the box and therefore I had to cut a hole beneath the box in order to get a staple in. If not, there's no need to cut a hole in the drywall.

I already cut up the drywall by the switch for the 2nd junction box, but it's in the basement stairwell and needed replaced anyway.

Thanks,
Jim

 

I dont think you need to put a staple in if you are fishing a wire. I have seen some drywall ceiling basements but for me it would be drop panels. There is just too much stuff up there to want to cover it up for good.

 

I went back and forth on the drop vs. drywall thing. I didn't want to lose the headroom that I'd lose with a drop. The biggest reason, tho, is that I wanted the "downstairs" (I'm going to stop calling it the "basement") to look like the upstairs as much as possible. If you think about it, with a few exceptions, everything hanging from/in your basement ceiling is also in your walls in the finished portion of your home. I doubt I'd ever have to get at any of it (except for some shut-offs, which I'll install access doors for). If I did, it's just some cutting of drywall and subsequent re-installation. Also, I was afraid ceiling tiles will sag and/or yellow over time.

Thanks for the reply,
Jim

 

Yes and I did look at a couple of your pics,, nice job, and it is certainly too late to change horses now. That looks really good.

 

Jim, I did my basement in the same way for the same reasons.

 

Thanks....it's taking longer than I had hoped (surprise, surprise) but it'll be worth it.

John: cool - I second-guess myself from time to time, but as sberry27 pointed out, it's too late now!

I'll keep the pics updated. I'm going to be re-wiring those junction boxes (plus the one I just installed over the weekend) this week.

Jim