installed hot tub, wired it up, fixed all problems (it was used), and ran it staight from panel through disconnect to tub, all is good. installed 50 amp gfi breaker with outdoor box, and now it trips every time i turn it on. obviously the power legs are correct, the white coiled wire from the breaker goes to a bus bar (there are 2) , and my grounds are hooked up there as well. i have 120 from each leg to the bus where the white wire hooks up, even without the ground connected! what am i doing wrong?

 

turns out gfi breaker was bad, go figure! just because it is new does not mean it is good! being a mechanical engineer and in hvac for 21 yrs, should have figured it out! you sparkies have a great day!

 

Glad we could help.

 

you are a funny guy! unfortunately i am guilty of taking bad advice gfi was not bad, still same problem. would you explain how this should be wired? 120 volt pump, 120 volt blower and 240 volt heater, all are turned on by seperate contactors with a 24 volt coil, running to switches, etc. 75 va transformer. all works well when 60 amp pull type disconnect is used, but trips the gfi when it is installed. what more info is needed here? i wired the whole thing, tore out old controls, etc. water is treated...I WANNA GET IN!!!

 

Does the CB trip when nothing is on, or only when a certain part is turned on, ie when the blower is turned on? I assume that the GFCI portion of the breaker is tripping when anythin is hooked up to it. This means that not all of the electricity going to the unit is coming back through the correct wires.

Did you mistakenly connect the neutral and ground wires together somewhere after the GFCI breaker? Remember, ONLY in the main panel for the house are the neutral and ground connection BONDED together. If this is a sub-panel, they should be separate.

 

Where did you connect the white neutral wire from the hot tub ? It should connect to a neutral terminal on the GFCI breaker.

Also, if this is a subpanel,the neutral and the grounds should not be on the same bus. You should have a separate ground bar that is bonded to the panel enclosure. The neutral bar should be mounted on insulators and the bonding screw should not be installed.

 

I'm kinda confused. Is your hot tub rated for 240 volts or 120/240 volts?

 

thinman,
It has 120 volt pump and blower motors, and 240 volt heater.

 

If you have everything wired correctly (including neutral from hot tub connected directly to breaker) and the GFI is tripping, then perhaps there is something wrong with the hot tub. You say you bought it used - did you see it operate before you purchased it? Why was the previous owner selling it? Perhaps you have bought someone else's problem.

As was asked earlier, when does the breaker trip - turn each function on one at a time and find out what is making it trip. You need to narrow down your field of possibilities if there is indeed something wrong with the tub.

 

so, if it's 120/240 volts, there should be a 120/240 volt 50 amp GFCI circuit breaker feeding the hot tub.

the neutral from hot tub is connected to the GFCI circuit breaker.

the neutral from the GFCI circuit breaker is connected to the neutral bar in the GFCI circuit breaker enclosure.

the feeder neutral from the service panel is connected to the GFCI neutral bar in the GFCI breaker enclosure.

 

i think i understand what you guys are talking about. for instance, the 120 volt pump has 3 wires. the green and white must not be connected together, as the green goes to the case of the unit, and then to the white coiled wire (from the breaker) buss bar. the white should go to the non insulated feed wire back to the main panel buss bar? if the 2 touch, then the breaker trips? also more info. have regular breaker in house panel, gfi breaker type disconnect at tub. between panel and gfi disconnect runs 6-2 w/ground in conduit all the way, then was 6-2 w/ground to tub until i seperated "white" and "green" by running a temporary seperate #12 for "case ground" which i hooked to the buss bar with th coiled white wire to the breaker. this baby runs like a champ with A/C disconnect in place of GFI breaker disconnect. i think i may need another wire somewhere? back to the panel?

 

when blower, pump and heater contactors not energized, and transformer wired for 120, touching white (common) wire feeding high volt side of transformer to case ground trips it right away. all is good with black 120 wire feeding transformer until white is tied in. basically it seems load of transformer is tripping breaker...but like i say..... it runs like a champ with a regular disconnect.......just scared to get in!!!!

 

YOU SHOULD BE SCARED TO GET IN

By code, you should have run a total of 4 wires to the GFCI breakerat the hot-tub. Two hots, a neutral, and a ground conductor. It sounds to me that you have only three wires going to the GFCI breaker located at the tub.

If this is the case, when you run the fourth wire, be sure to keep the neutral and ground separated. This may involve removing a bonding screw and adding a separate ground bar.

Tony

 

D**M !
All this time I have been going on the assumption that you ran the correct # of wires to your tub ! Are you telling me that you ran 6-2 w/grd Type NM and was using a bare wire for the neutral and a separate jake-legged ground ?

Man...You A/C guys I should have known

You need a total of 4 Insulated with this setup. The ground wire is required to be insulated also ( per NEC )

2 Black #6 , 1 White #6, 1 green #10. All Type Thhn/Thwn or another type wire that is listed for a wet location.

( the white wire could be downsized based on ampacity of pump and blower and whether or not they are on the same phase) It is usally not done though.

At the main panel, hook 1 black wire to 1 side of the breaker and the other black wire to the other side of the breaker. The white as well as the green will both connect to the neutral panel.

At the subpanel with the 50 amp GFCI breaker, 1 black will go to 1 of the main lugs and the other 1 to the other main lug. The white wire will go to the neutral bar that is mounted on insulators and is not bonded to the panel via a strap or green bonding screw. The green wire will go to a separate ground bar that is mounted directly to the panel.

The white wire from the GFCI breaker will attach to the neutral bar. The white wire from the hot tub will connect to a neutral terminal on the GFCI breaker. The ground wire from the hot tub will connect to the ground bar. The # 6's from the hot tub will connect to the load side of the GFCI breaker. 1 wire to each lug.

Then turn on breakers,set heat ,grab a cold one,and enjoy !

 

hvac4u - is the hot tub rated for 240 volts or 120/240 volts?

You mentioned a 120 volt transformer?

Is said transformer mounted at the hot tub?

Is said transformer supplying the 120 volt equipment at the hot tub?

How many wires in the cable from the service panel to the hot tub's GFCI breaker?

How many wires in the cable from the GFCI breaker enclosure to the Hot Tub?

It will help us figure out the problem if you could enlighten us.
Thanks.

 

i should have known my limits, as i will be the first to admit i do not know everything! here is what i have....3 wires, one of them not insulated (6-2 w/ground ) from the panel in the garage to a "pool/spa gfi 50 amp disconnect" kit mounted on the wall near the tub. there is a 50 amp standard double pole breaker in the garage. all wire is either in grey hard conduit or sealtite. about 15 feet from the gfi disconnect is my a/c. can i pick up ground there? had an electrician promise to do it for beer, but he moved...go figure thanks for putting up with me, there is a lot for me to learn about gfi

 

You can't pick up an insulated ground or an insulated neutral there. You need to bite the bullet and pull in the correct wires from the main panel. If it is conduit all the way, It shouldn't be hard to do. Tie the new wires onto the old and pull .That is, provided you used electrical conduit and the proper fittings and not plumbers pipe with el's.

 

I'm assuming that your hot tub is rated for 240 volts. If that's the case, here's what you need:

A ground (neutral) wire is required from the garage panel to the Hot Tub's GFCI enclosure. This neutral is required for the 120 volt monitoring circuit in the GFCI breaker.

The ground (neutral) wire is not required from the GFCI enclosure to the hot tub. The reason is there's a built-in 240 to 120 volt transformer at the Hot Tub.

Also the GFCI breaker in the enclosure should be rated at only 240 volts not 120/240 volts.

Hope this helps.