is red white

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  #1  
Old 04-28-03, 11:35 AM
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joepan
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is red white

i am installing a 1250 watt heater and have put a 12 3 (red black bare)wire in the wall now how do i hook up to the 20 amp breaker?
 
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  #2  
Old 04-28-03, 11:39 AM
G
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Is this a double pole breaker of a single? Is the heater 120V or 240V? Post back with these answers and we can help you better
 
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Old 04-28-03, 11:46 AM
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joepan
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is red white?

i am installing a 110v (could be 220)1250(2200) watt heater and have put a 12 3 (red black bare)wire in the wall now how do i hook up to the 20 amp single pole breaker? iwas hoping to make it 220v but only have 1 spot left in my panel
 
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Old 04-28-03, 12:17 PM
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I don't recall seeing a red / black / bare cable before. Did you cut the white out of it? Anyway, just tape the red wire white and use it as a neutral. The code may not specifically allow it, but as long as you identify it as a neutral it will be a safe and sound installation in the opinion of someone who doesn't count - myself.
 
  #5  
Old 04-28-03, 03:00 PM
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The red and black 12/2 is common up here. If you wish to use it for 120v you have to permanently reidentify the red wire as white. You must do this at both ends of the cable run. The black you use as the hot and it connects to the breaker the reidentified red (white) (neutral) is then connected to the neutral bar. But I must caution you to make sure you wire the heater to the 120v connections and follow the manufactures instructions on this.
The next thing I will caution you about is your energy bill is going to go through the roof with this connected as 120v.
It might be a good idea to look into installing a subpanel into your system it would allow you the freedom to expand as you need it and the cost of the panel will most likely be covered in a couple of years if you consider what the heater is going to cost running on 120v.
 
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Old 04-28-03, 04:47 PM
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It won't cost any more to run this at 120 volts than at 240 volts. A kilowatt-hour of energy still produces a kilowatt-hour of heat. It will, however, take longer to warm up the room.
 
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Old 04-28-03, 07:18 PM
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joepan
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red IS white

thank you, since now you know I am from Canada.. I was hoping that there was a 2 pole 20 amp SINGLE slot breaker (Siemans)
so I could run this heater at 220v, if not any suggestions would be helpfull ..this heater is to be used in a basement just to take the chill out...
 

Last edited by joepan; 04-28-03 at 07:46 PM.
  #8  
Old 04-28-03, 07:59 PM
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texsparky
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It is possible that you may make more space available in your panel by changing out one of your existing breakers to a twin or a quad. Siemans makes both.

Twin <IMG SRC="http://pages.sbcglobal.net/donniemcmayon/_uimages/twinbreaker.jpg"> Quad <IMG SRC="http://pages.sbcglobal.net/donniemcmayon/_uimages/quad.jpg">

P.S. The quad pictured is a Cutler Hammer but siemans look the same.
 
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Old 04-28-03, 09:12 PM
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I agree with John about the cost to run it at either voltage but there are certainly obvious advantages to using higher voltage. If it was mine it would be, it really helps especially when service is marginal. Anything that can be 240 should be and it really helps stretch light service. Tex, remind him not to think a tandem breaker is a double pole breaker.
 
  #10  
Old 04-28-03, 10:05 PM
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texsparky
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Thanks sberry,
The twin is actually used to replace two single pole breakers with one breaker to free up space in a panel. They are not to be used with multi-wire branch circuits, as this could cause overheating of the neutral conductor. A multiwire branch circuit is one consisting of (2) 110 volt circuits ran in cable such as 12-3 w/grd., or 14-3 w/grd where the white neutral wire is common to both circuits,but the circuits are not on the same phase.

Clear as Mud?
 
  #11  
Old 04-29-03, 06:54 AM
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When I was talking about cost in order to maintain the heat and heat the room up especially when the temperature drops suddenly the heater will be running all the time. It is less expensive to run 240v believe me I've tried to heat rooms at minus 50 and it is not easy on 120v
Depending which province your in would depend on how easy adding a sub panel is. But it is not as hard to do as in the U.S. no matter which of the codes your dealling with. In many cases by the time you replace the breakers with tandum ones (they are expensive up here) the sub starts looking very attracvtive.

Another idea for the basement though is if you have alternate heating already such as a furnance is to install a fan in the heating duct going to the basement wire the fan back to the main furnace motor so when one comes on the other will run. the duct fans are not expensive and only push the extra heat needed. It is actually becoming a very popular way to heat the garage and basements better so they can be used for more then their intended uses.
 
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Old 04-29-03, 07:16 AM
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texsparky
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gard,
Why are the tandems so expensive in you area ?
HD lists the twin at $9.47 here and the quad at $19.97.
 
  #13  
Old 04-29-03, 07:33 AM
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Canadian dollar about 60% of American to start. Then the duties to get them into the country. Tack on the taxes GST, PST and certain items get expensive. Plus the extra add on to get the item CSA approved for use up here, it ends up most items are 125% more expensive up here then in the States.
 
  #14  
Old 04-29-03, 11:06 AM
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joepan
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great job on the suggestions!.. i have found a siemans quad
breaker that is a 2 pole 20a and 2 15a singles on either side
so the bonus is not only that i solved the problem, i have gained
an extra circuit. this item, here in the Toronto area is priced at
a whopping $55 before the gov'nt gets their 15% thanks for all your help.. 'cause H**e De*p*t certainly was not! Now off to go to the install..
 
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