Pool wiring redux

OK, as a follow on to my previous thread that garnered only 1 response to many questions, I'll ask a few more thouroughly thought out questions.

I've decided to take the pool guy's advice and install a subpanel down at the new "remote" location for the pool equipment.

The remote location is not protected from the weather - ie; not a "pool house", just a slab, so I intend to use waterproof subpanel box and pvc conduit and fittings.

The run from the main panel to the remote panel will be approx. 120'. I want to install a 50 amp feeder breaker in the main panel and will run #8 wire directly from main to remote (black, red, white and green). At the remote end will be a 20 amp circuit for the main pump and 2 15 amp circuits for the booster pump and heater.

I'll run the bonding wire (#6 insulated solid cu) from all 3 devices at the remote end spliced together with a compression fitting to a single #6 wire running 65' back in the trench to the point where it was previously connected to the pool shell and splice with a compression fitting to the existing wire.

4 questions:

1. is the wire size correct for the load and length of run?
2. does the bonding wire run in conduit or just in the trench?
3. can I feed 1 20amp and 2 15amp 220v circuits at the remote end with this arrangement? Or should I just use 120v? (pumps are switchable)
4. what size conduit should I use in the house for the 4 #8 wires?
I'll not be using NM so as to avoid splicing between main & remote panels.

Thanks in advance and hoping for comments...

 

1.) Id bump your wire size and breaker size up to #6cu, and 60 amp just because the run is over 100'. No need to run a full size neutral, or a full size ground. So you should have 2-#6s, 1-#8 neutral, and a #10 ground.

2.)Run the bonding wire in the trench, and its supposed to be #8cu solid, at least in my state.

3.)Stick with the 220v arrangment youve got.

4.)You can use 3/4" for #8s, but if you bump up to 2-#6s, 1-#8 white, and a #8 green, you should run 1".

 

Thanks for the on-target reply! Tremendously helpful!

Bumping up wire and breaker is no problem, neither is running 1" pvc.

If I bump up wire and breaker sizes as you suggested, would the subpanel then contain the following:

2 x 20 amp breakers for 1 20 amp 220v circuit
4 x 15 amp breakers for 2 15 amp 220v circuits

or should I use

1 x 20 amp double pole breaker
2 x 15 amp double pole breaker

also, should any of this be GFCI? Equipment will be hard wired with 2 timers in waterproof boxes in circuit as well as on/off switches with waterproof operating covers. Given the timers, maybe the subpanel breakers should be GFCI breakers?

finally, will I need a subpanel main breaker on/off at the remote end or is the feeder breaker in the main panel sufficient?

Ottosdad

 

For 220V loads, you must use two pole breakers, not two separate single pole breakers, especially if they will be GFCI.

You probably should use GFCIs anyways, considering it its a pool, and pool equipment.

For convenience, also install a 15A 120V GFCI recept.

 

You need to go with the 1-2/p 20 and the 2-1/p 15s.
It seems to me that all the pumps and motors should be gfi protected, but in the code book it only says receptacles that supply pool related pumps and motors must be gfi protected. It doesnt say anything about hardwired. I would put a gfi breaker on em if it were me.
If anyone else can find something about hardwired pool equipement and give me a referance, Id love to see it.

 

I'm not sure if you need a disconnect by code, but even if you do your setup is OK. If you have 6 or less breakers then those can serve as the disconnect.

I'd also probably put in the GFI breakers as well, but its going to cost you a few $$ to do this.

I don't remeber from your earliier post but I doubt highly that the pump needs 20 amps @ 220, or the other guys need 15 amps. Ther point being you would be not "short changing" the job by using #8 for the hots (and #10 for the neutral and ground). This might make the cost of the GFI breakers less painful. If the expected load on the pumps and heaters does add up to over 40 amps then you might want to consider the #6 again.

However, I wouldn't use a 60 amp breaker unless you want extra power out there. The point of increasing the wire size is to lessen the voltage drop at a given current. if you increase the amount of current that can be used (by increase the breaker size) then you somewhat defeat the purpose. Since it is so far from the house it might not be a bad idea to run a 60 amp sub and a few entra circuits for lights, outlets etc, but then I would say to use #4 wire for this.

 

Your not defeating the purpose if the load is diverdified. This is a sub-panel that is supplying two pumps, a heater and possibly a general use receptacle. The end result, in my opinion, is a benefit regardless of the overcurrent protection. If you can put a 60 on it why wouldnt you? Your talkin virtually nothing in cost of breaker.

 

I don't have a problem with running a 60 amp sub. I also agree the cost difference in the breakers is probably $10 (for the GFI's).

The point I was making is this. He wanted to run 50 amps and #8. You said run #6 and go up to 60 amps. Since this is a sub, and your providing a genral use outlet the load is unknown and may approach 60 amps. I assumed (maybe incorrecltly) that you suggest #6 wire to lessen the potential woltage drop which is fine. However if you allow 60 amps to be drawn then you again have a voltage drop problem with the #6.

So I would say eithyer do #6 and a 50 amp breaker, or #4 and a 60 amp breaker.