Wiring an Aquarium Store

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  #1  
Old 06-05-03, 09:03 PM
JustPhish
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Wiring an Aquarium Store

Hey folks. I found this site ironically, by a refferal to my site from here. Just in time too.

I am in CT and I am moving to a new space which is industrial space. THe lanlord has run 200 amp service into a panel into my space. In the panel are 9 20amp breakers and 1 15 amp breaker.

Does anyone know what code is for wiring in industrial space? May I run the outlets with romex inside of conduit? How many outlets can I add per 20 amp breaker safely? I understand 200 amps is 200 amps and that I can not exceed that amount, or 20 amps on a 20 amp breaker, but I need to know what is the max number of outlets.

My space is over 100 feet long and 50 feet wide and I need tons of outlets close by since this will be housing countless marine aquariums and high intensity lighting in most cases.

Thanks folks.
JP
 
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  #2  
Old 06-06-03, 12:38 AM
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You cant run any wiring in that space. That is commercial.
 
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Old 06-06-03, 12:44 AM
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But, besides that point that might be a tricky calculation as there isnt a limit on the number of recepts on a circuit, you will need to calc the load and figure accordingly. That is part of the reason for having it proffesionally done especially since it may effect the saftey of the neighboring tennants.
 
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Old 06-06-03, 05:17 AM
JustPhish
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Wow, thanks for the help!
 
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Old 06-06-03, 06:16 AM
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The point isnt to ruin your day but you may not get occupancy permit if you try to do your own work. Most states only allow licenced electricians to do work on commercial properties and they would be even more touchy on a rental or lease where you were not the owner.
 
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Old 06-06-03, 06:55 AM
JustPhish
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I want to run my own outlets to save time and money. I do not do panel work as I know my limits. I do not think anyone is concerned with who does the wiring as they keep asking me when I am going to do it. The building caretaker was the one who ran all the power and moved the panel to where it is now. He used bx and bare romex all over the place to add some lights to the place. He's not an electrician. Considering this is storage space and they are using the maintenance guy to do everything with what he can find laying around the warehouse, I don't think they are concerned.
 
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Old 06-06-03, 12:00 PM
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There is no code limit to the number of receptacles you can have on one circuit. You can put 100 if you want. You need to calculate the load of each tank filter,light, heater etc and determine how many can safely be run from one breaker.
 
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Old 06-06-03, 03:01 PM
JustPhish
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Thanks joed, I could have sworn in the past an electrician had told me something about only being allowed to have 10 outlets on a 15amp breaker. I understand I can't overload the rating of the circuit, my only concern was how many outlets were allowed.

Also, is romex through conduit allowed in industrial space or must it be BX?
 
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Old 06-06-03, 03:13 PM
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Just curious why would you put romex in a conduit? If you go through the trouble to run pipe then the easiest thing from there would be to use individual conductors not romex. #12 thhn or thwn for 20a. circuits and #14 Thhn or thwn for 15a. circuits.
 
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Old 06-06-03, 03:16 PM
JustPhish
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Purely for the ease.
 
  #11  
Old 06-06-03, 03:25 PM
txsparky
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In a commercial bldg, the receptacles are calculated at 180 va per outlet. Using #12 wire on a 20 amp circuit, you are allowed 13 receptacles per circuit. On 15 amp #14 wire, you are allowed 10 receptacles per circuit.

However, if I were you, I would contact the local building code offficial to see if a licensed electrician is required. My guess is that one is required.
 
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Old 06-06-03, 04:13 PM
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Purely for the ease

Trust me there is nothing easy about putting romex through a conduit.
 
  #13  
Old 06-06-03, 08:05 PM
JustPhish
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All depends on the size of the conduit. With the amount of space I have and the mess of plumbing and conduit already running, I don't care what size I use.
 
  #14  
Old 06-06-03, 08:31 PM
txsparky
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JustPhish,

Being a fulltime firefighter, aren't you just a little bit concerned with following building codes? After all, the National Electric Code is put out by the National Fire Protection Association .
The building caretaker was the one who ran all the power and moved the panel to where it is now. He used bx and bare romex all over the place to add some lights to the place. He's not an electrician. Considering this is storage space and they are using the maintenance guy to do everything with what he can find laying around the warehouse, I don't think they are concerned.
There may be a fish fry in your near future
 
  #15  
Old 06-06-03, 09:12 PM
JustPhish
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Not following the building code? Huh? What are you talking about? I asked how many outlet per breaker was CODE. I asked if romex through conduit was sufficient to make CODE.

This isn't rocket science folks, it's electricity. Use the right wire gauge, circuits, wire, materials blah blah blah and it's just as safe as if anyone else who was doing it the correct way, like I would do it.

If I run my own outlets and my own wiring per code to the panel, what's the problem? If it's not done right the electrical inspector will say so and it will need to be torn down and redone. You folks certainly aren't going to try and tell me because you got a piece of paper that says you're an electrician means you are infallible. Electricians aren't capable of making mistakes now? Hmmm, I asked two questions and got several contradicting answers. Ironic. I bet you guys are also going to tell me that all the DIY work you've done you pulled permits for and had inspected. You never did electrical work for someone else before you got certified right? You've never gone over the speed limit, you always come to complete stops when you're supposed to even if no one's looking etc etc etc. Funny how we can pick and choose which laws/rules we feel are worthy enough to follow, but then preach to others about the merits of following the rules.

It's not like I came here and asked if I could get by with using speaker wire to run 200 amps, underwater, to something that draws 400 amps. I asked how many outlets are safe and is romex passed through conduit safe enough. Everything I asked about was directly related to safety and doing it right. If my intention was to do this half assed I wouldn't have wasted my time coming here.

Bottom line, my work will be done right. It will be done with someone over my shoulder, and best of all, it will be inspected by my cities electrical inspector. Period. I asked what I thought would be simple questions for some electricians to answer but it appears as though many, if not all of you, don't know the answer yourself since only one person really bothered to answer me directly. I think I would have appreciated your candor much more if you simply said you didn't know and directed me to a place to look it up or just didn't say anything at all. When I find out the correct way, I'll come back and share it with you guys. Promise.

Beginning to smell like work in here with all this smoke being blown up my poop chute. Let the thread die please.
 
  #16  
Old 06-06-03, 09:38 PM
txsparky
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You are the one that described the way the wiring looks in the building, not me. I am sorry if you took my reply wrong. I was referring to what you said was already there. You will see ,if you calm down and reread my last post, that I quoted what was your description of what sounds like very poor quality work.

You were told how to calculate the # of receptacles on a circuit. That is what you asked wasn't it?

Sparky-L.U.697 was curious why you would want to pull romex through conduit. If you are running conduit already, THHN wire would be cheaper as well as easier to pull.

sberry, and myself made mention of the fact that what you are wanting to do is illegal in most states(probably yours also) and you could be fined a hefty sum as well as having to tear all of your work out. To further add fuel to the fire, in the event of a fire or electrocution, the insurance company is gonna want to know who to lay the blame on.

This isn't rocket science folks, it's electricity.
Yep, nothing has ever burned down nor has a life been lost from something as simple as electriciy
 
  #17  
Old 06-06-03, 10:11 PM
JustPhish
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LOL calm? Brother, what I wouldn't give for my life to be so simple I could afford to waste precious minutes over what someone using a nickname said to me on a forum over the net.

Yep, nothing has ever burned down nor has a life been lost from something as simple as electriciy
Awww come on now. Let's not be so dramatic. Know how many structure fires I have been to that were caused by people cooking on their stove? Hundreds of people lose their lives every single day to trivial things. Just the other day I went to a fatal extrication caused by an improper lane change. Golly, I can't remember the last time I saw Sally Struthers on TV telling me that yes, I too, can earn my lane changing degree in just 6 short months by learning at home.

I bet that there have been more deaths caused by chicken bones than caused by electrical work done by someone other than an electrician and certified as a GO by a certified electrical inspector.

Good night folks...it's sleepy time!
 
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Old 06-06-03, 10:30 PM
texsparky
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Smile

Good night , sleep tight.
 
  #19  
Old 06-07-03, 05:42 AM
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The electrical inspector will not inspect without a permit. In CT, only an E1 licensed electrical contractor can pull this permit. Save the DIY work for your house, where you may legally perform it.


Originally posted by JustPhish
The building caretaker was the one who ran all the power and moved the panel to where it is now. He used bx and bare romex all over the place to add some lights to the place. He's not an electrician. Considering this is storage space and they are using the maintenance guy to do everything with what he can find laying around the warehouse, I don't think they are concerned.
Last I checked, two wrongs still don't make a right. Maybe "they" aren't concerned, and maybe "you" aren't concerned, but I'll bet the building owner's insurance carrier, the local AHJ and the fire marshall are concerned.
 
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Old 06-07-03, 01:42 PM
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This is a forrum for the CORRECT answers not just the answers you want to hear! Sorry if I made you feel like you were being lectured, but letting you know that if you do your own commercial work and then let the electrical inspector look at it could cost you alot of money and grief as far as fines, was for your benefit not mine. Also
All depends on the size of the conduit. With the amount of space I have and the mess of plumbing and conduit already running, I don't care what size I use.
Which is also a mistake you certainly can't run 2" conduit to each receptacle , but you probably don't want to hear that either. Everybody on this forum tried to help with advise to save you time, effort and money as well as make it as safe as possible. I am truly sorry you did not get the answers you wanted from here maybe you should try MAKEBELIEVE.COM
 
  #21  
Old 06-07-03, 03:12 PM
JustPhish
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Good gracious, some of you guys can really be full of yourselves. Let me put this to rest before you hurt yourself bending down to talk to me from way up there. I came and asked two questions. Lots answered, only one person knew. Thanks a million, I got the answer I needed. I've been ready to move on, I asked that you guys do the same, for some reason you've got this fascination going on and can't let this end. That's a problem you're going to have to deal with yourself, I am afraid I can't help you.

2" conduit into a receptacle? My goodness you guys keep grasping. Tell you what I got 1.5 inch drains that go into 3 inch pipe. I have 2 inch pipe feeds which end in 3/4 inch outlets. The person who invented those little things called reducers, bushings, adapters, is a rich man.

Electricity causes fire and deaths so therefor it's rocket science. Can't run romex through 2 inch conduit and then reduce it for a receptacle? LOL, please! I'm begging you guys to stop! It's almost not funny anymore!

It's Saturday, there has GOT to be something better you can be doing right now. If I wasn't at work I know I'd be doing it.

Take care and thanks bunches for the info. I've left a smarter and better man.
 
  #22  
Old 06-07-03, 04:06 PM
Vicki James
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Thanks,

This was entertaining to read. After only a few years into the trade I have forgotten just how ignorant lay people are, not to mention dangerous.

Vicki
 
  #23  
Old 06-07-03, 04:41 PM
bryan77
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I would like to know where this"industrial" building is, sounds more like a backyard flea market. You came here for help, others were just trying to help guide you in the right direction, Can you pull romex in conduit.........Yes, is it the cheapest, fastest, smartest way to go, Hell no............the posters were just trying to help. So care to share the address and city for the fish store, it sounds like a candidate of this is not how to do electrical work. Hey you may be able to film it and sell copies at your flea market hope ya find another site when you need some info, cause I know I wouldnt bother to help ya, with all that has trasnpired here. Ya wanna sell fish, sell fish, but leave electrical to people that knows what is going on,or at least has the attention span to learn...............Hope you have fire insurance.
 
  #24  
Old 06-07-03, 05:27 PM
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If it was in your own home I may have felt different about inspections and permit issues for some types of jobs. That is just a personal issue, but in a commercial setting it is just different and many of the contracts you sign will require things done differently. I was merely preparing you for the possibility that you might run into some roadblocks with your intended project that you were not aware of. If you have a business licence with the state it will include that you will follow the other state laws and not ot be totally suprised at some point if the electric inspector doesnt see this your way. I have broken a few laws in my day too,,,, but most of the time I dont have to ask how to do it and certainly wouldnt tell someone I am doing it. And I can quite surely say without much doubt that doing your own wiring in a commercial building isnt legit regardless of how I feel about some of the issues you describe.
 
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Old 06-07-03, 05:43 PM
JustPhish
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sberry, well said. I respect your view and appreciate your leaving out the condescending attitude. We're all equals no matter who signed your certificate, in my eyes anyway. Some of the others debate was so outlandish there's no way I could take it with a straight face. Just too much left out hanging in the breeze to not sieze the opportunity and run with it. Little firehouse humor, maybe when they start a DIY firefighters forum some of you will learn to lighten up. Again though, I found this exchange just as entertaining as you vicki.

Luckily all this exposure has netted me an electrician who wants to do some work. I always loved the barter system. So from the bottom of my heart, thanks.

Too bad this really wasn't a flea market. Man that would have been nice. But alas, it's a fish market and I need the juice.

And again, a third plea!!! Please let this thread die the rest of you clowns suck all the fun out of it. Nuff said.
 
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Old 06-07-03, 08:00 PM
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If it was mine and I was looking to do it on the side and save a few $ on he deal thats how I would have done it too,,,just the way you are,,,, is to get some help from a friend on a deal who has the paper in his pocket. Thats just smart business without leaving yourself out in the wind for future problems. The calculation that Txsparky gave was the textbook answer you were looking for to a certain extent and some of the other posts eluded to it,,,, it was written into the context like Joed said,, is that it should be calculated. Both those answers are right. And you also right about human error but in commercial work there is an insurance factor built into it. You are correct about proffesional mechanics making mistakes, none of us are immune from error. They buy insurance for it and there is an inspection proccess to double check it.
 
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