breaker ?
#1
08-21-03, 02:44 PM
breaker ?
I have a 30a two pole breaker running 5 baseboard heaters. I am trashing the heaters and was wondering if I could run 14/2 or 12/2 from each pole and treat each as a 15a single pole to power outlets and such
#4
08-21-03, 10:53 PM
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Location: Williamsport and Blue Bell, Pennsylvania
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If you change out the breakers for 20 or 15's, you could use Commercial/Industrial grade devices that are designed to handle 10AWG wire. Personally I would start from scratch, 10AWG requires 2.5 cu in per wire in each box plus volume allowances for clamps, grounding, devices, etc.
Is pulling new wire in doable?
If you absolutely must reuse the existing we can provide additional help with that. Mixing sizes of wires has been discussed in previous posts and it is agreed that it is a frowned upon practice, sorry to spoil that idea.
gj
Is pulling new wire in doable?
If you absolutely must reuse the existing we can provide additional help with that. Mixing sizes of wires has been discussed in previous posts and it is agreed that it is a frowned upon practice, sorry to spoil that idea.
gj
#6
08-21-03, 11:48 PM
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If you are fishing in new wire into a space that is non-accessable, the code does not require it to be fastened within that space. Be sure to use boxes with clamps. Any more questions?
gj
gj
#7
08-22-03, 12:56 AM
oh but yes:-) how many points are bath fan/light unit and ceiling fan with light? also, on a 20a with 12awg, what would be the "limit" of points. I know code say "who cares" when asked for limits but I would like to be safe while i use my circuits as much as i can. thanks for the advice. as to the surface track mounting, i saw something that mentioned that relating to running wires in the attic. Thanks for the knowledge:-) this site and a pretty good electrical book from homer have served me well in my projects. Thanks again!
#10
08-22-03, 11:45 AM
Member
Counting "outlets" (any point where power is used) is only a gross approximation and is of limited use. When you have real fixtures, count amps or watts instead.
A fan motor may only use 65 watts or so on high speed, but the attached light kit may use 240 watts or more (my example assumes four 60-watt bulbs -- you may not be using that much). Don't exceed the watts available on the circuit. A 20-amp circuit provides up to 2400 watts. It's best to stay somewhat shy of that. So five ceiling fans with light kits, depending on the fan and the lights, could use as much as 1500 watts. That fits quite comfortably on a 20-amp circuit with room to spare, even if all five were on full blast at the same time.
P.S. You will often read about restricting yourself to 80% of the circuit's power. Although this is a useful rule of thumb, in most cases it is not a requirement. The 80% rule is cited ten times more often than it actually applies.
A fan motor may only use 65 watts or so on high speed, but the attached light kit may use 240 watts or more (my example assumes four 60-watt bulbs -- you may not be using that much). Don't exceed the watts available on the circuit. A 20-amp circuit provides up to 2400 watts. It's best to stay somewhat shy of that. So five ceiling fans with light kits, depending on the fan and the lights, could use as much as 1500 watts. That fits quite comfortably on a 20-amp circuit with room to spare, even if all five were on full blast at the same time.
P.S. You will often read about restricting yourself to 80% of the circuit's power. Although this is a useful rule of thumb, in most cases it is not a requirement. The 80% rule is cited ten times more often than it actually applies.
#12
08-23-03, 06:38 AM
i have decided to split the overhead lighting and fans between two 20a single poles. My house is one story ranch that measure around 45'x25' with an attached 6'x8' utility room. I propose to run one circuit on the front half of the house from the LR straight back to the MBR and the other from the kitchen back. Is this acceptable or should I split them the other way or does it really not make a damn? ha ha!
you guys are awesome on this site. I am enjoying learning and planning this project thanks to you and "homer d".
chad
you guys are awesome on this site. I am enjoying learning and planning this project thanks to you and "homer d".
chad
#13
08-23-03, 08:44 AM
one more question while im here. my breaker box is mounted so that if wire is pulled straight up into the attic and then towards the front of the house it crosses directley over the center of the attic door. can i run it along the side of the ceiling stud and the up the truss, across the door and down to my junction box for the lights instead of having to pull up plywood or go the long way around? also, the metal plates on the joints of the truss assemblies, can you use the to support a run of wire and stay in code?
thanks again
HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND!! :-)
thanks again
HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND!! :-)
#14
08-23-03, 11:32 AM
Member
How you choose to split the load is up to you, within the constraints of the code. There are things you must do, and things that are merely good ideas. Circuits serving kitchens, dining rooms, laundry areas and bathrooms are very tightly controlled as to what you are allowed to put on the same circuit with what. You must read and understand these very specific codes. If you need help with those codes, let us know.
In the "good idea but not required" cateory, I suggest you not put lighting and receptacles on the same circuit. This is merely to avoid the annoyance of lights dimming when you turn on the vacuum cleaner. Minor violations of this idea are okay, particularly if dimming lights don't bother you.
You can run the cables through your attic in any way you want. It would of course be a very bad idea to run it across the attic opening. When running the cable along a framing member, staple it to the side of the wood. When running the cable across a framing member, install a 2x4 guard strip and staple the cable to the side of the guard strip. Don't use the truss hardware to support your cable. They aren't designed for that, and might damage the cable sheathing. Staples are dirt cheap.
Get a few good books. There are a lot of codes to learn, and they are quite easy to follow. But you can only follow them if you know them, and redoing it to meet codes later can be very difficult.
In the "good idea but not required" cateory, I suggest you not put lighting and receptacles on the same circuit. This is merely to avoid the annoyance of lights dimming when you turn on the vacuum cleaner. Minor violations of this idea are okay, particularly if dimming lights don't bother you.
You can run the cables through your attic in any way you want. It would of course be a very bad idea to run it across the attic opening. When running the cable along a framing member, staple it to the side of the wood. When running the cable across a framing member, install a 2x4 guard strip and staple the cable to the side of the guard strip. Don't use the truss hardware to support your cable. They aren't designed for that, and might damage the cable sheathing. Staples are dirt cheap.
Get a few good books. There are a lot of codes to learn, and they are quite easy to follow. But you can only follow them if you know them, and redoing it to meet codes later can be very difficult.
#15
08-23-03, 02:39 PM
thanks. I have 2 pretty good books that i have learned a lot from and I like to talk to you guys to confirm that i do in fact understand and get some pros secrets that you can only get from an experienced electrician. I will be putting my full bath circuits on a dedicated 20a as is the code as i understand. I only have one receptacle in each bath, so I decicded to put 1 gfci, 2 lights, and a vent fan, all in the one bath on the bathroom circuit. Do you know the reason for this code? I'm missing it.
I have the wire staples and can go around with no problem, i was just brainstorming too much. he he. one more question, any rule of thumb for gfci runs. I have a fluoresecent fixture with a 3-prong plug in that i will hang in the utility building. I would like 2 more duplex recepts after the gfci. Is this ok? and I can use regular recepts after the gfci and still be protected and in code, right? Thanks for the wisdom..
Chad
I have the wire staples and can go around with no problem, i was just brainstorming too much. he he. one more question, any rule of thumb for gfci runs. I have a fluoresecent fixture with a 3-prong plug in that i will hang in the utility building. I would like 2 more duplex recepts after the gfci. Is this ok? and I can use regular recepts after the gfci and still be protected and in code, right? Thanks for the wisdom..
Chad
#16
08-23-03, 07:49 PM
Member
If you wire the GFCI according to the instructions, your regular receptacles downstream from it will be GFCI protected.
