Fused Meter Base

I've been looking for buy a mete base (preferably with dual meter sockets) that has a main breaker inside also (100A). I've seen some for underground service, but I need one for aerial service (Chicago). The SE cable will be about 12 ft long from the meters to the panels, and I don't feel that comfortable having it that long. The inspector will most likely be ok with the length without the outside breaker since all of the houses around are identical to mine and none have an outside breaker.
I just can't find anything locally.

 

Are you in the Chicago city limits or a municipality that enforces Chicago code? If so, there are a few code related issues you should be aware of before completing this project.


1. Outside disconnects are not allowed in Chicago, which rules out the meter mod / main breaker combination you're looking for.

2. Uness you are replacing an existing meter socket or have a variance from Com Ed. outside metering is not allowed in Chicago

3. SE cable is not allowed in Chicago. Your service riser and feed from the meter to the panel will have to be in conduit. Also note that the conduit will need to be turned into the building via a 90 degree bend, or landed in the back of the meter socket, as LB's are not allowed for outdoor use in Chicago.

I wish you luck, you are attempting to install electrical equipment in the city with the toughest code in the nation.

 

Am do actually live in Chicago itself.

It's good I can't use an outside disconnect, makes my life much easier.

In terms of meters, all meters are outside of the house, the inspector won't allow a meter inside the house (unless it's an apartment building). The meters are already outside, and the feeders are NM look alike cables. Since I'm replacing the siding on that side of the building (enclosed porch actually) I want to replace the feeders ( in EMT conduit of course) and the meter sockets. I may end up replacing the main panels also as one of the mains has a hard time reseting, and they are about 30 years old. The house currently has 2 independet services, and I want to keep them like this for now even though we occupy the whole house. Regarding LB's, I installed a brand new meter base/feeder on my parent's house last year using a LB and the inspector didn't say anything about it. He just looked at it and was more concerned with how strong the anchoring was to the house then anything else. I'll check the code on that, I actually do have a City of Chicago Electrician's licence, I just rarely do this kind of work (most of my work involves low voltage (phone, alarm, network) wiring.

 

The SE cable you speak of is old enough that it was allowed when installed. times change, code changes... especially in Chicago.

As to the outside metering, it is allowed on single family residences (mandated by Com Ed. as a point of fact.) However, you mentioned multiple meters so I presumed (wrongfully) that this was a multi-unit dwelling, which would require an indoor meter set up, or a variance from the AHJ.

The LB is a no no, but I have seen inspectors let that slide, especially on single family structures. But, out of curiosity, have you looked at it lately. Chicago has outlawed them because they have a tendency to disappear (actually, they tend to be stolen and scrapped, as the larger ones usually have aluminum covers.)

Now then, back to your install. Chicago code requires your first disconnect to be the "first fitting" in the service run. Technically, you can go 10 feet, as long as you don't couple the conduit. Some of inspectors will allow 10 feet regardless, a few are pretty tight on this issue. Depending on how far your panels are into the house, you may need to add disconnect switches closer to the point where the service enters the building. If you do go that route, bear in mind that those disconnects will be the first overcurrent protection in the system. Therefore, your waterpipe bonding will have to be terminated at those disconnects, not the panels.

 

***The SE cable you speak of is old enough that it was allowed when installed. times change, code changes... especially in Chicago. ***----------->As far as I can tell the service is from the late sixties/early seventies. While I think that NM-B cable was one of the greatest inventions of all times, I don't like any unfused wires, especially ones not inside a metal conduit. I could leave the whole system as is and not worry about it (the main reason why this came up is because I'm residing that whole side (no permit is required for this), and has to pull out the meters anyway so I can move the meter box in top of the new siding and remove the old siding underneath. I am yet to call ComEd to see how that' done. I assume I won't need a permit to do this. The idea was that since I'm doing this, I may as well replace the SE cable with some new THNW (100A rated) to feed each panel in some 1 1/4" EMT. I was going to use a 2" EMT and 200A rated Cu to feed the meter box from the utility drop (since you could theoretically pull 200A total). The current wire now is AL (looks like a number 4).

***As to the outside metering, it is allowed on single family residences (mandated by Com Ed. as a point of fact.) However, you mentioned multiple meters so I presumed (wrongfully) that this was a multi-unit dwelling, which would require an indoor meter set up, or a variance from the AHJ. ***--------->The house is setup as 2 independent apartments, although my family owns the whole house and we don't rent them out. The dual meter setup has been in place since the house was built, and I would like to keep it like this. Perhaps in the future we will need to rent an apartment. The reason why I was surprised on the outside meters is because pretty much all houses on my block are identical to mine, and they all have outside meters. 3 of the houses had new services installed (new service drop, meter sockets and new panels) in the past year, and they all had they all kept the meters outside. I have to stop by an electrical supply store tomorow to buy a dual meter socket. It seems that the big boys (HD and Menards) don't have anything but single sockets.

***The LB is a no no, but I have seen inspectors let that slide, especially on single family structures. But, out of curiosity, have you looked at it lately. Chicago has outlawed them because they have a tendency to disappear (actually, they tend to be stolen and scrapped, as the larger ones usually have aluminum covers.) ***--------->I wasn't going to use a LB outside anyway (the EMT will run from the back of the meter socket straight through the wall), but I was just a bit surprised since I see a fair amount of them.

***Now then, back to your install. Chicago code requires your first disconnect to be the "first fitting" in the service run. Technically, you can go 10 feet, as long as you don't couple the conduit. Some of inspectors will allow 10 feet regardless, a few are pretty tight on this issue. Depending on how far your panels are into the house, you may need to add disconnect switches closer to the point where the service enters the building. If you do go that route, bear in mind that those disconnects will be the first overcurrent protection in the system. Therefore, your waterpipe bonding will have to be terminated at those disconnects, not the panels.***-------->I won't really have more then 10' of horizontal run, however, once I do my 8' of horizontal I have to put a LB and go 16" down to the panel (the panel is 16" from the ceiling. I'll have to figure out how I'll solve this problem. Incidentally, when I changed the service on my parents house the inspector didn't even come inside to check the new panel. All he did is look outside at the EMT, took the cover off the meter socket and looked inside, and left. Took him about 2 minutes. Perhaps I had one of the lax ones...

 

A good plan on the 2". It may be a bit of overkill, but it will allow for future expansion of the system, which is always a good thing. Further, I'm glad to hear your opting for Copper conductors. I'm not a big fan of Aluminum. I know it is legal, I know it has stood the test of time on many installations. But i've had a lot more service calls on Aluminum cable than copper.

As to NM-B, I'll grant you it is quick and handy. But, the city of Chicago quite disagrees with your liking of it.

As to the LB over the panel. being you have a 16" drop in height, and you are using 1 1/4" EMT, I would recommend a preformed 90 for your install. That would eliminate the LB, which not only helps to appease the inspector but it makes for an easier cable pull.

FWIW, if you happen to live on the North Side, or near North, I'd highly recommend Active Electric Supply (on Lawrence) for those items that cannot be had at Big Orange. There good people, always helpful and absolutely the best stocked wholesale house in Chicago.

 

***A good plan on the 2". It may be a bit of overkill, but it will allow for future expansion of the system, which is always a good thing. Further, I'm glad to hear your opting for Copper conductors. I'm not a big fan of Aluminum. I know it is legal, I know it has stood the test of time on many installations. But i've had a lot more service calls on Aluminum cable than copper. ***----->I don't really like AL wires that much, even though I've used them on my house in Wisconsin (mainly becasuse nobody would care underground copper conductors. The only place where I found them it was special order and would have cost 4 times more then AL.

***As to NM-B, I'll grant you it is quick and handy. But, the city of Chicago quite disagrees with your liking of it. ***---->I actually never used NM-B until I build the Wisconsin house, and I found it to be much easier then running conduit. Still only conduit in Chicago though, even for low voltage.

***As to the LB over the panel. being you have a 16" drop in height, and you are using 1 1/4" EMT, I would recommend a preformed 90 for your install. That would eliminate the LB, which not only helps to appease the inspector but it makes for an easier cable pull. ***------->I would love to use preformed 90's, but the problem is that the house has a 14" thick brick wall. Not only that there'll be a union in the wall, but it will be nearly impossible to make the 90 bent only 2" away from the wall. I'll need a fair amount of clearance unless I chop away at that brick. And it's not easy, I tried that already.

***FWIW, if you happen to live on the North Side, or near North, I'd highly recommend Active Electric Supply (on Lawrence) for those items that cannot be had at Big Orange. There good people, always helpful and absolutely the best stocked wholesale house in Chicago.***------->I actually do live in the Northwest side of Chicago. I'll try to stop there tomorow after work if I can. I don't know what time they close though.

 

I was finally able to stop by Active Electric and buy the dual meter base. Next I'll have to decide where it goes on the wall. I have another question now. I'll probably install 2 service disconects inside the house (about 4 ft away from the meters). I know the limitations on installing main and subpanels, do the same limitations apply to service disconnects also? The best way for me would be to mount them in what I call the laundry room, although I'm not sure that's possible. The other alternative would be to mount them underneath the stairs. The only "problem" with that will be that there is only about 3' of height and 3' of room in front. Would either one of those options work? I generally love brick houses, but it sure makes work much more difficult.

 

Disconnects would fall under the "equipment likely to be serviced while hot" catagory. Same clearance rules apply here as they do for panels. 36" front clearance, 30" wide working space, door must be able to open 90 degrees.

Incidentally, if you are using those disconnects as your main disconnects (which you will be) then they become the point of bonding. Your water meter bond wires will need to be routed to those disconnects, and your ground/ neutral jumper will also be located there. (which means you will have to seperate the grounds and neutrals at the panels and "float" the neutral bus (which is to say isolate it from the panel can.))

 

I was afraid of that. Incidentaly, does the code specify how much height I need to have? I do have the 36" front clearance and 30" side to side, but only about 30" of height. I suppose I could mount them facing the basement and build a little wall so they'll face out, then I'll have a full 6' of height. I was aware of the grounding/neutral issue, will have to run a brand new ground anyway.

 

Ok, per NEC 110.26(E) working height is 6'6" minimum and must be maintained within the entire 3' x 30" zone in front of the equipment. Being I work in Wisconsin these days, my copy of Chicago code isn't handy, but as I recall they enforce the same space requirements as National.

 

I've never been quite sure the application of that exception to 110.26(E). But I think it gives you some wiggle room.

 

John,

This exception was added because of the many existing installations (that need to be re-done/upgraded) that don't already have the 6'6" headroom clearance. It'd be kinda tough to add the headroom .

It is also my opinion that single family and most other residential electrical installations should be exempt from most of 110.26. With the exception of the service point, which should always have the required clearances, there is never the need to examine, adjust, or service any energized equipment.

 

Bolted,

You are correct, nothing ever needs to be worked on live, in a perfect world anyway. I don't live or work in a perfect world and neither does anyone else. NEC seems to take that into account on this artical. Maybe it doesn't need to worked live, but you can bet a lot of it will be. Within the context of this thread, the topic was location of a fused disconnect. If ever there was a piece of equipment that was serviced live, that's the one.

Don't get me wrong, I don't promote the concept of live work, I just recognize that it occurs. Then again, in some situations, there is a valid argument for working hot (ie: loop circuits that are fed from both ends. The POCO boys have a slogan they use gor such thngs; "work it hot, or ground it cold."

 

Have you though about a different location for your disconnects? In Chicago if you run outside the house after the meter you can go any distance but once you enter the house or any building your service disconnect needs to be within 5 feet of the point of entry, unless it's encased in 2" of concrete.

 

www.milbankmfg.com

 

There is really no other place or route to get the power in. The easiest/simplest way would be to simply follow the same route as the original installation. Straight into the house, go 7' horizontal, then 12" down. Using a LB to go down into the panels themselves. The power comes in the back of the house, then it goes in through an enclosed porch (livable upstairs) which is/will be the future laundry room. Since the room will be finished I wanted to do any electrical/plumbing work now, that's where the "problem" came in. Obviously I can't put the service disconnect in that room (7 ft X 15 ft) since it's a laundry room. I wouldn't want to anyway. I can't go next to it as the stairs are there and I would have to put the meters 2' off the ground the clear them. Trying to put 2 service disconnects underneath the stairs is doable (I will have about 6' of height, 36" accross and 36" in front, but it will be a very convoluted wiring setup (will have to use 3 90' elbows for each service disconnect, plus 3 additional elbows to run the power from the service disconnect to the main panels. 12 elbows total. I can picture it, it will look very unapealing. There is simply no better solution I can think of. Putting is the meters on the side of the house (as opposed as the back) is out of the question as the sidewalk is only 24" wide and every time you'll walk by it you'll hit it.

I looked at 2 other houses next to mine today (same design as mine, and the electrical service entrance was replaced last year), and both have the power going from the meter socket straight to the main panels, across the 7' room.

I have to call ComEd Monday to request "permission" to break the seals on the meters, I'll ask them what they "think". I'm replacing the siding on the back also, and had to pry off the old meter box. I think it looks really bad when contractors side around outlets, meter boxes and such. It looks much better when the siding goes underneath everything.

 

Com Ed won't care either way. They are only concerned with meter placement and the design and materials used in the riser. Everything South of the Meter is considered premisis wiring and thus outside of there jurisdiction. Once the feeder cable leaves the meter socket it is governed by the NEC (or, in your case, the ChiEC) and your local building inspector. The meter and everything above and beyond it is governed by the NESC (National Electric Service Code) and the utility company.


As for breaking the seals, yes it is correct and proper to call Edison. But they're gonna be amazed by that call. Electricians have been hacking their seals for so long that they expect us to do it nowadays. It's still against the rules, but... Ive called in meter problems and dead service laterals to Edison and they always ask if I've put my volt meter on the primary lugs of the meter. I'd have to break the seal and pull the meter to do that, but they figure I did just that and any information I can give them will cut down on troubleshooting time for there tech. *G*

 

I took a day off work yesterday and did most of the work (needed light outside ). I put 2 new 100A SquareD panels inside and a Landis and Gyr dual meter base outside. The feeder line leaves from the back of the meter base, goes about 7' horizontal into a LB, then 12" down. The wires are #3 CU. I could only get black wire though, do I use a white marker/tape to mark the neutral? I used some electrical tape now so I know which one is which. The meters are transffered into the new meter box, and the power is run from the old meter box into the new one via a 2' line (#3 again), using a short jumper to make the connection in the old meter box. As soon as the siding will go high enough I'll run the 2" EMT (about 20') and run the 200A feeder from the utility drop to the new meter panel, and remove the old setup completely. Incidentally, the old AL wire that feeds the house is the same thickness as the #3 CU wire I put it, yet the old meters were 100A. It was a good thing I did the transfer yesterday as one of the old mains tripped in the morning and will not reset (nothing to do with a short as it will do it with no breakers connected also).
In order to run the line from the meter box to the utility drop I'll need to go up, then right about 6', then about about 8'. Will it be ok to use 2 90 degree elbows for this? The alternative would be to try to bend the EMT at 45 degree, but I'm not looking forward to that. Also, what do I use to connect my wire to the utility wire? I assume I'll have to make the connection and not ComEd. In the past I've use a "thing" that looks like a hollow core (brass) with 2 setscrews. A heat shrink sleeve went over it. The connectors I see at most houses look like they are "push in", where you don't have to touch any bare wire at all. Is that something that only ComEd has?

 

Sounds like your well on your way.

1. Yes, "rephase" that is to say mark the neutral conductor with white tape. This is the standard method of marking when using larger cables.

2. There should be no problem with using preformed 90's. But, why attemt to make field bent 45's? They do sell preformed 45's (and 22's and 30's)

3. As to the rest of your set up, it sounds pretty good. Remember to bond your meyter enclosure to the ground rods and use a bond bushing on the meter side of the conduit running into the panels (that's what Chicago likes to see grounding wise.) Basically, you ground the meter can and the feeder conduit via the ground rods, then ground the panel via the water pipe.
(Note to others: this is the required method of grounding in Chicago, other jurisdictions have much stricter rules.)

4. Now to the fun part, live tapping Edisons drop. I don't recommend this exercise to thre uninitiated. Remember, you will be playing with live voltage. Further the service drop is the power companies turf and therefore falls under their rules. Generally, they are fused at 300% or better, the system is designed to protect the system, not you.
But, FWIW, yes, in Chicago the refeed is usually "temped" by the electrician, then Edison comes in and redoes it. You can wait for them to make the connections, but you'll be without power until they show (could be several days.)

The splices you refer to sound like Underground splice kits, not what you'd want for an overhaed service. Normally split bolt connectors are used (sometimes wire nuts for small conductors.) The power company will either use barrel connectors (aka Blackburns) or the push ins you speak of.

 

Reconnects can be done where I work also, but we do not mess with anything live. Remove old feed from old meter base. Connect old meter base load side to new meter line side. Place shorting bars in new meter base. Install meter in old base. POCO line fuses are normally on the high side of the stepdown transfromer. The low side can produce 1000s of amps before the high side opens. All they care about are shorts.

 

Right now the I placed a shorting clip in the old meter base, and used the "line out" terminals to feed the "line in" terminals of the new meter base. The meters are in the new base. Cutting the power off is not a problem. Connecting it back is the problem. The process will involve stripping the ends of the live wire (not too difficult or dangerous), sliding the ends into the bare brass connector (again, not so bad as everything will be touched via insulation), then tightening the allen set screw (that's were the fun part is). Next comes the easy part of sliding the heat shrink over the connector, and using a heat torch to shrink it. To make matters more fun I'm doing this 25' up in the air on a AL ladder. Incidentally, the latter will touch no metal, and it's sitting on 1/4" of rubber, but I still have no intention of "testing" that.
By the way, is there such a thing as "electricians gloves"? Or are they just thick welder glove-like leather gloves? The breakdown voltage of those is way higher then 110V anyway.

 

first things first. DO NOT! I repeat DO NOT! attempt live electrical work from an aluminum ladder. Sure it's on a 1/4" of rubber, but what is the other end resting against? likely to come in contact with? And is that rubber mat designed and rated to withstand electrical current? Does the mat have any holes, knicks or abrasions? I don't mean to sound rude or anything, but this is very serious business and my primary concern is your life.

Next, why bother with the torch? For ease of installation, I'm kinda fond of Polaris taps. They are also a set screw connection, but they have the benefit of being insulated (plastic outer cover.)

Finally, yes, there is such a thing as "linemans gloves." They do look a bit like welders gloves from afar, but they aren't. The outer shell is very similar. But Linemans gloves also have an inner liner made of Neoprene. The entry level gloves are rated for 1KV (1000 V.) When working hot servic drops they are your best friend. But they'll set you back a couple hundred bucks (I figure my life is worth at least that much )

 

The ladder is resting against plastic siding, so no current will "leak" that way. I'll rent a fiberglass ladder to do the work when I get to it.
Where do I buy the Polaris taps? I'm sorry I sound so ignorant (for an electrician), but I rarely do this kind of work (new service entrance or any major live work). Is that what you call the plastic covered connectors that ComEd uses?
I may go to active electric and get a pair of those gloves. I say my life is worth $200 also. Even though I'll probably never use them again.

 

I'm glad to hear you'll be working from a fiberglass ladder. Just to illustrate my point. Your ladder is resting on rubber, and leaning against plastic siding. So far, so good. So you cut the first leg of the service drop and push it aside. Now you start cutting into the second leg. Meanwhile, the first leg has touched up against your ladder. You just put yourself in between two hot legs. Yes, the odds are against that happening. But it has happened, and no doubt will again. The trick is to take every precution to assure your not the guy it happens to.

As for the Polaris taps, any supply house should have them or a reasonable equivelant. (Polaris is an NSI product line. ILSCO also makes a similar product. I can't think of a supply house that doesn't stock one or the other. Incidentally, thay aren't the same animal used by the power company. I'm not sure what the trade name is for those, or where you can purchase them. I know the POCO boys call 'em "gel packs". A Polaris is very similar to the set screw connections you spoke of, except it's factory insulated so you need no heat shrink.

 

The gloves need periodic testing. You might ask when you buy them where you can have them tested. The high voltage set I have is tested daily or before each use.

 

It's finally finished. The panels are wired (3 #2 copper through 1 1/4" EMT. The meter socket is fed via a 2" EMT using 3 #3-0 copper). Everything is working ok so far, althouth working 25' up on a ladder with 200 lb of copper pulling you down is not fun I was surprised that the utility wires are solid AL (only the neutral is stranded), and it looks like a #4 (in terms of diameter. The setscrew connector I had looked 50 sizes to big (had to use this size because of my 3-0 copper.
Thanks for all the help.