Inspection Failure - GFCI Receptacle


  #1  
Old 09-19-03, 08:12 AM
markmardon
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Inspection Failure - GFCI Receptacle

I just went through a rough inspection for my new bathroom. Couple of minor things but nothing big EXCEPT the inspector says that the one GFCI receptacle must be on a dedicated line (I wired the overhead light on the same circuit). I have not run across this requirement anywhere. Can anyone tell me if this makes sense?

Also, they want a hardwired smoke detector. Is this normal for a bathroom?

Thanks much!
 
  #2  
Old 09-19-03, 08:18 AM
T
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If you have a dedicated 20A circuit feeding the bathroom the lights in this bathroom can be on the same circuit. If this circuit also powers another outlet in a different bathroom then no lights can be on this circuit.
 
  #3  
Old 09-19-03, 08:21 AM
markmardon
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So, the GFCI receptacle and the lights are on the same 20A circuit which is dedicated to that bathroom only. There is nothing else on that line. This is why I'm confused. It seems like it shouldn't be a problem.
 
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Old 09-19-03, 10:08 AM
J
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It isn't a problem but it also isn't always wise to argue with the inspector. He does have to give you a code reference for why he rejected it.
 
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Old 09-19-03, 10:28 AM
P
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The relevant Art. is 210.11, (C), Dwelling Units, (3), B-R BC's, exception---"Where the circuit supplies a single B-R , outlets for other (loads) within the same B-R shall be permitted to be supplied---"

I suspect this is ANOTHER example of the Code being enforced by a person who never sucessfully completed a NEC exam.I've encountered this situation MANY times.
 
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Old 09-19-03, 11:59 AM
J
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The inspector may not have realized that the circuit did not serve receptacles in other bathrooms. This is not is a gray area of the NEC. Unless there is a very unusual local code controlling this, your inspector is clearly wrong. Your job is to be exceptionally tactful in pointing this out. Be sure to give him a face-saving way to reverse his objection.

A smoke detector should never be installed in a bathroom. The directions that come with any smoke detector clearly state this.
 
  #7  
Old 09-19-03, 12:55 PM
CSelectric
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First things first, does your community have a code addendum that is used in addition to the NEC? As bathroom circuits go, I've met two types of inspector; those that insist that the lights and recept. be on a seperate circuit from one another, and those that insist that the lights be fed from the load side of the GFI. NEC does not explicitly require either, but many local codes do. Before you question the inspector on this one, make sure you know what code he is applying (if in doubt, ask for a code refernce from the inspector. They are supposed to give you that information on their report.)

Second, smke detectors in the bathroom. Bad idea. You will get nothing but nuisance trips from a smoke detector subjected to steam. But, again I would check to make sure their is no local code requiring one.
 
  #8  
Old 09-19-03, 03:29 PM
markmardon
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Thanks for all your help folks. I did check the 210.11(C)(3) reference and it seems to agree with what you all are saying. Also, there appears to be no local amendment or superceding code. So, now I guess I just have to convince the inspector.

Again, thanks!
 
  #9  
Old 09-19-03, 06:49 PM
CSelectric
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It sounds like you may have a leg to stand on. Bu I highly recommend keeping any interaction with the inspector on a professional, and very subdued level. Ask for a code refernce first. Then read the text of that code article (if you don't have a copy of NEC, post the reference here and I'll cpy the text to you.) Then, if you still disagree ask for the inspectors reasoning. Approach it from an "I want to understand your prespective" point of view. Do not ever, under any circumstances, show anger or disdain towords the inspector. Once you've wound up on the bad side of an inspector, there is no end to the number of violations he can find.
 
  #10  
Old 09-19-03, 08:11 PM
Liquid plumber
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On the other hand, you could do this the Libertarian way and lecture the inspector about the 'non initiation principle' and tell him about all the loaded guns you have in your possession.

Robert
 
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Old 09-22-03, 08:26 AM
P
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I hope this is of interest--------

On another WS I "posed" as someone who was confronted with what I considered to be erroneous interpretation of the NEC, and after describing the wiring asked; "How do I refute this?," and I received this interesting,and un-usual reply----

"Your refute it with tact. As an inspector myself, I will be the first to say we make mistakes.An inspector who refuses to learn from a trades-man is a D--- Fool."

"I believe you meet the exception of 210.11(C)(3). Discuss this poiltely with your inspector. Good luck and let us know what happens"

The attitude of many, if not most electrical-inspectors is--- "I've decided that you are wrong and don't confuse me with the facts."
 
  #12  
Old 09-22-03, 10:56 AM
markmardon
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Just an update to let you all know that I did (politely) talk to the inspector this morning and she agreed that the circuit was in compliance and changed her ruling! Woo hoo! And, about the smoke detector, in the report it wasn't clear but she wanted it OUTSIDE the bathroom in the bedroom. Since the ceiling in that area is already open for the bathroom work, she said she wanted to see one put there. Easy enough to comply.

Thanks for all your help!
 
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Old 09-22-03, 11:20 AM
J
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To avoid false trips, put it at least five feet from the bathroom door.
 
  #14  
Old 09-22-03, 05:08 PM
CSelectric
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That's great advice Patt, and from a great source. I'm quite familiar with the WS you speak of and do recall seeing that post.
 
 

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