Hello, guys.
I bought a resale house recently and found out that 2 outlets ( one at the living room and the second one at the master bedroom ) are not working. After some "brainstorm", it was found that power must go from second floor to main floor, from one outlet at the master bedroom to another one and then down to living room. It will take a lot of time to explain how I found it out, so I skip it. First outlet in the bedroom has power, but second don't. When I put power to second one , the outlet in living room is working. So the questions are : How much possibility that wire is broken at wall ? How could it happen? Can I feed the second outlet at the bedroom through outlet in the living? ( meaning that conect other outlet at the living room with not working one).

Best regards

 

A broken wire in the wall is very rare. I suggest you spend $8 on a receptacle tester at Home Depot and test the receptacles. It will tell you whether the problem is an open hot or an open neutral (sometimes incorrectly reported as hot/ground reverse). That will help narrow down what the problem might be. Unless somebody has been putting a lot of nails in the wall, the problems are almost always bad connections in the boxes.

 

Thank you, John.
I will try it on weekend.
Just one more question. Does "open hot" mean that black wire is just disconnect somewhere?
And one more : Is it possible to have electrical box that is hidden at the wall (cannot be seen ) under the drywall?

Best regards

 

If one of the prior owners was a very poor handyman (perhaps you have seen some examples), the it is possible that a box is hidden in the wall. This is strongly prohibited by the electrical code, but it has been known to happen anyway.

An open hot means that voltage is not reaching the outlet. That could be because of a broken wire, a disconnected wire, a tripped breaker, a bad breaker, a tripped GFCI, or a failed receptacle.

Note that the receptacle tester only provides the best information if there is a grounding source at the receptacle.

 

"First outlet in the BR has power but the 2nd. one doesn't"-----

Consider the wiring between the inter-connected outlets as cable "pairs"comprised of one Black wire & one White wire. Dis-connect the receptacle at the "Live" BR outlet-box and determine which "pair" is the "Feed-in" cable-pair.( constant 120 volts across the Black & White wires) Insulted the exposed wire-ends and switch the circuit "Off"

We now progress from a "voltage-test" to a "continuity-test" which is best performed with a deflecting-needle type tester.WE'll presume there is a cable-pair between BR#1 outlet-box ( where you located the "Feed-in" cable-pair) and BR#2 outlet-box.

There are 3 combinations of continuity tests--- (1) "Short" together the Black & White wires of the "dead" cable-pair in BR#1 and test the cable-pairs in BR#2 for a "shorted" cable-pair---Zero Ohms meter-reading.-----(2), test for continuity between the Black wire of the "dead" cable-pair in BR#1 and the Black cable-wire in BR#2----(3) Ditto the White wires.

As a precaution be certain that ALL cable-pairs are "dead" (Zero volts) prior to performing the "Zero Ohms" test and that NONE of the individual wires read 120 volts-to-Ground.

Good Luck & Enjoy the Experience!!!!!!!

 

I've had this same exact problem more than once in a duplex I own. I have found that the "push in" type terminals on the back of the recepticle get loose and then the wire overheats and either burns off or just doesn't make contact anymore. I locate the last outlet that has power to it in the chain and then pull it out and repaced it with the screw type terminal outlet. This has always fixed my problem. Then I usually do the whole circuit or room at a time since I got my tools already handy.
I don't know why they even use those push type terminals. They have almost caused fires in some of the recepticle boxes from the burned wiring. I would never use them myself. When I built my house, I made sure every outlet and switch used the screw terminals.

 

Hello, guys .
It's me . Again !!!!

So today I bought receptacle tester and tested outlet # 2 in Master bedroom. The result - "Open hot" ( no any lights on the tester). Then I checked continuity between black of outlet #1 to black on outlet #2. The result is 0 by digital multimeter. The same result for white wire. That's looks bad. But at the same time I have 0 between black and white on outlet #2.
The outlets were changed couple days ago. Actually , It was my first thought that or #1 either as #2 could be faulty.
So actually it looks that wire is possibly broken inside. But at the same time I hope that may be , by some way, it goes up to attic (for some purpose - - if it goes down , why it can not go up ???) .
How about this suggestion ?

Any suggestion what it can be ?

Best regards,

 

The most common causes of open hots are: (1) tripped GFCI, (2) tripped breaker, (3) loose black wire, usually in a backstab, (4) bad breaker.

If you look at this thread, and the two threads it references, you'll see various approaches to finding a loose neutral. To address possibility (3), you may need to do the same thing, except you're looking primarily for a black wire problem rather than a white wire problem.

But before you do that (since it's a lot of work), be sure to 100% rule out (1) and (2). Many people on this forum have asserted strongly that they have no GFCI, or that they have only one or two, before finally finding another one in a place they least expected. Some people don't know that you may not be able to easily tell that a breaker is tripped by looking at it, or that to reset it you must first push it to the off position.

Finally, there is possibility (4). A bad breaker is rare, but easy to test for with a voltmeter. However, doing the test is not very safe if you don't work carefully.

 

Hello, guys, again.

OK. I will check all this possible solutions again. But as I said before - outlets were checked and replaced, there are power leaving outlet #1 but it doesn't come to outlet #2. I pretty sure that it can not be tripped or broken breaker ( they were visually checked, reseted an put back) on the main panel. It can be CFGI , but I don't see any at the MB, nor at the in-suite. The outlet from insuite is connected to CFGI at the washroom on main level. As for me it looks a little bit stupid. Should I put CFGI at the MB in-suite washroom ? I am still in doubt about that, because I was told by home inspector that if you have two CFGI in row , it will be first one that reset faster than the last one on the row. Is it true ?

Now I have one idea : I wanna trace where the wire(with power)from outlet # 1 is going to. Can you recomend some easy-home-made device for that? In this case , I will start tracing wire (with power) leaving outlet #1 getting direction or place where it is broken (if it is broken). It maybe going to some other place but not to outlet #2 .............

Sorry, guys, for headache.

Best regards,

 

It's possible that the cable does not run directly from outlet#1 to outlet#2. It's hard to see the cable routing without X-ray vision. It may be necessary to cut a hole (or two) in the drywall to look. You always wanted to learn drywall repair, right? And that room is due for a color change anyway, right?

But first, you might try removing the receptacle from outlet#1 and splicing the input and output wires directly to each other. That will tell you whether or not the receptacle in outlet#1 might be the culprit.

If you put two GFCI is a row (which is a waste of good money), it is random which one will trip on a ground fault.

 

Hello. It's me again.

I will try to splice wires as it was told above. But not today or tomorrow - - my parents are coming to visit my family and me, so I will be a little be busy for a couple days.

Using X-ray for tracing wire is good idea. Do you have any idea where I can buy some nuclear ??? :-)))))))))
I heard that some guys are using amplifier + steel nail + wire and they are getting some easy-made "tool" for tracing wire at the wall. Tolerance is 1/2". Not to bad, right ? I also heard that some use radio, tape-recorder. The idea is that when electrical current is running through something , it's creating magnetic field. If you can catch this field you can say that this field is there by pointing (do not use finger - it's brute :-))))) ) . The close you move your device to the center of the magnetic field , the stronger potential of the magnetic (saying so...) .
I was told about that a long time ago but I did not think that it could be necessary for me one day.

OK, guys . Have some rest. I promise not to bothering you for couple days. But I will be back.

BEst regardds,