Electricity to an existing garage


  #1  
Old 11-05-03, 11:38 AM
W
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 41
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Electricity to an existing garage

I have a 20 X 20 concrete block garage that I am going to use for a workshop. I have minor tools that I periodically use. Makita table saw, DeWalt radial arm saw, drill press, table sander, power wheel grinder, and some other miscellaneous tools. There is absolutely no power in the room now. I would like plenty of Lighting, plenty of outlets for the tools, and an exterior light that I plan to put above the garage door on the outside, preferably on a sensor. I have several questions.

Considerations: · The garage is only about 25 feet from the panel.
· The ceiling is made up of 2” x 12” 16” on center ceiling joists with plywood on top of those. Could be used to distribute cabling.

1. Should I use protective cable? And if so, what would be the best to use? I have heard of BX and wire inside conduit. What are the pros and cons between the two? How do you attach it to the cinder block wall?
2. What type of circuit breaker should I use. Presently, my panel has all 15 amp breakers.
3. What gauge of wire should be used.
4. Is horizontal or vertical installation better in a garage/workshop? I plan to have workbenches along the perimeter of most of the room, with cabinets above the benches.
5. Should I have a sub panel seeing that the existing panel is so close to workshop?

I appreciate it in advance.

Will
 
  #2  
Old 11-05-03, 11:51 AM
S
Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Brethren, Mi
Posts: 1,564
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
I like a sub in garages and it offers both voltages. You can use cable in the ceiling no problem. I personally like pipe down below because you cannot run more than one set of conductors to a detatched building. In your case 60A serv would be heavy enough. Here is a link to look at some of the basics.
http://www.homewiringandmore.com/homewiringusa/2002/accessory/detgarage/detgarage.html
 
  #3  
Old 11-05-03, 12:17 PM
R
Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central New York State
Posts: 13,245
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
If the garage is detached you will want a sub panel, to get enough power out there. If the garage is attached then you can get away without it, if you wanted to.

The outklets will need to be GFCI protected. You can do this at the first outlet on each circuit, or at the panel. I would do it at the outlet if you have no subpanel.

Use all new circuits and make them 20 amp circuits. Keep the lights separate from the outlets. I would suggest making the outlets workbench height, even if you don't have a workbench everywhere.

I would go at least two circuits for outlets, perhaps three depending on what you might run at the same time. The layout of the outlets will depend on how you want to set the room up.

You may want to consider running 220, asl long as you are running wires.

I don't have a feeling on what type of cabling is best. If you use Romex, it only needs to be protected at lower levels. In the ceiling it can be run along the joists.
 
  #4  
Old 11-05-03, 12:47 PM
W
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 41
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Sberry27, racraft et al,

Thanks for all the input. This is really helpful. This Garage is attached to the house, so I suppose I won’t go to the extra time and expense to use a sub panel.

So, if I am to understand, when you say multiple circuits (I am a novice here) you are suggesting that I install multiple 20 amp breakers at the main panel? If I were to tell you that I probably won’t be using power tools simultaneously, and if the above assumption is correct that your advising multiple circuits, would one for lights and one for outlets suffice? Also, when you say “GFCI”. Are those the receptacles found in bathrooms with an internal breaker in them? And when you say you can use this at the first outlet in each circuit, do I simply install one of those in the first box, and then daisy chain the other outlets? I never thought about running the wires in the joists above, so if I do that, (for the outlets) do I run a pipe (depending what protection I use) from the ceiling and bring a cable down, connect an outlet, and then run it back up through the same pipe, run over to the next location and do the same thing, so on and so on? Oh, and if I only use one circuit, how many outlets can be on one 20 amp circuit. And is an outlet one single receptacle, or is it considered the entire box, i.e., a dual or quad.(I apologize for these very rudimentary and basic questions. It’s the “obvious” that really is never explained in the books that I read.)

Thanks again for your input. Sites like this save the DIY a ton of money, and makes the projects safe for the individual!

Will
 
  #5  
Old 11-05-03, 01:02 PM
R
Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central New York State
Posts: 13,245
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Yes, use multiple 20 amp breakers in the panel.

A GFCI outlet is what you have in your bathroom or kitchen or basement, if your house is new enough. They have a test and reset button. You can use one as the first outlet and then daisy chsin to the other outlets, as long as you connect the outgoing wires to the load side of the outlet (marked as such). The incoming power is connected to the line side of the GFCI. A GFCI circuit breaker is placed in the panel and provides the same protection.

Yes, put the lights on a separate 20 amp circuit breaker. You can probably place all the lights on a single breaker, if they are simple flourescent lights.

I would still use at least two 20 amp circuits for the outlets, probably alternating at least every other duplex outlet. You never know, you may want to use an electric space heater in the winter when you are out there.

In a residence you can place as many outlets as you want on a circuit. But you may not exceed the rating of the circuit, or more specifically 80 percent of the rating of the circuit as a continuous load.

I was thinking of conduit for the vertical portion of the wiring and running the wires up to the joists and then over to the next location and down in more conduit. You could avoid going up to the joists and go horixontally to the next outlet, but would need to use conduit.

One final word. There are ways to use what is called a multiwire circuit and actually put each half of an outlet on a separate circuit, but I have left this out as there are pros and cons to this and it requires special considerations, and is alittle trickier.
 
  #6  
Old 11-05-03, 01:10 PM
W
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 41
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Bob,

Thanks again for your thoughts. I'll be working on this the next few weeks, and I'll let you know how it goes.

Will
 
  #7  
Old 11-05-03, 09:36 PM
zokvus6
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Why would he need to run a separate circuit for the lights?

I just finished a similar project and ended up with 4 receptacles- (3 inside, and one with GFCI outside) and two dusk to dawn double spotlight fixtures- on one circuit - and it seems to work just fine. Put all the wires in PVC conduit.


Just wondering.... and hope I didn't mess up!
 
  #8  
Old 11-06-03, 04:41 AM
R
Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central New York State
Posts: 13,245
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Separating the lights from the outlets is not a requirement (not in a garage anyway). I just think it's a good idea, and it is what I would do.

If you use a GFCI breaker then you will lose lights when/if a ground fault occurs. Also, if you accidently overload a circuit (which would be easier with lights on the same circuit) then the breaker tripping will put you in the dark.

If I were to put lights on the same circuit then I would at least split the lights, putting half on each circuit.
 
  #9  
Old 11-06-03, 10:53 AM
W
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 41
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
PVC Conduit for electric cables?

I have never heard of this. Is this easier to work with than normal galvanized metal conduit. I was going to purchase a conduit bender and conduit cutter, but PVC sounds like a better option for the little work I have ahead of me. Do you connect just like plumbing PVC, with the purple and glue material. What about connecting to the boxes. Are those plastic/PVC also?

By the by – I peaked into my panel last night to see if I had room for (2) 20 amps for the plugs, and (1) 15 amp for the lights, and I do, so I am looking forward to starting the project. Thanks again for all the help. !!
 
  #10  
Old 11-06-03, 02:19 PM
zokvus6
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
I am not an electrician, so my comments are strictly that of a DIY'er.

The PVC conduit I referred to is very easy to use, cut and bond. It is gray in color and I go it at the big orange store. It was like 85 cents for 10 foot length., 1/2 inch diameter. The boxes are PVC and so are the bends and condulets. I used the condulets where the conduit entered /exited the house , to make a quick 90 degree turn,and to pull the wire some.

This conduit cuts easily with a hacksaw. I used PVC cleaner and the PVC glue- I purchased that at the orange store also.

What I was told you cannot use and I did not do- was to use the white, plumbing type PVC pipe. Make sure you get the gray kind.

Also, I found it helped to plan every twist,and turn in advance . I ended up with some extra and took the leftover backand got credit (I am currently unemployed and $ is tight).

In the conduit, I put three #12 wires- a black, a white and a green. There was plenty of room but it's not a good idea to stuff too much wire in a conduit.

Also, I am not worried at the fact that the lights are on this circuit as they are exterior spotlights -never had them before and although good to have, if they went off, no big deal.

Good luck with your project- take your time and it will probably turn out great!
 
  #11  
Old 11-17-03, 11:24 AM
W
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 41
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Had a busy weekend with my work shop/garage project. I ended up using galvanized ¾” conduit to get from the ceiling down to the outlets and light switches. I installed the boxes to the wall by first mounting 4”x4” ¾” pieces of plywood to the block using construction adhesive and one of those Remington nail devises that you put a 22 shell in, and hit it with a hammer, then screwed the ¾” conduit couplings to the box, and then running the pipe down to boxes. (making double bends in the conduit was no mean task by the way!) I decided to use incandescent lighting rather then florescent, for two reasons. First and foremost, the light itself. Went to the lighting section of the Depot, and it seemed that the fixture that I was interested in didn’t emit enough light, AND was rather expensive. Ended up just putting 6 regular ceiling fixtures up, (One bulb each) that totaled about 5 dollars, and the lighting is great. Installed (2) 3-way switches for those. Ran a separate 15amp circuit for them.
Installed (6) Quad outlets (3) each on separate 20apm circuits with a GFI at the beginning of each circuit. Had two space heaters cranked last night, and not problem,….I even replaced the 50 year old window that was in there, and installed a new metal security door that goes into the house!

I want to thank every one for the very helpful information. The weekend was a grand success. Next comes the fun part. Starting to build and install all the cabinets and accessories for the new shop!!!

Will
 
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: